[00:00:00] Joe Towne: Hey there. Welcome to The Better Podcast. I’m Joe Towne.

Two brief trigger warnings about this episode. First, a couple of New Yorkers do some swearing in this episode, it’s in multiple places. So if we shadows have offended, skip ahead and all is mended. And secondly, there are discussions about drugs and some descriptive passages about the horrors of slavery.

So keep that in mind. Today’s guest is an actress, artist, model, author, and podcaster. Rachel India True. Rachel has been acting since she was a teenager in New York City. She trained in New York and worked there as a young artist before making the leap to Los Angeles. She’s been on some of the top shows of the last few decades.

Fresh Prince of Bel Air, 90210, the Drew Carey Show, Dawson’s Creek and Better Things. She had her own show for five years on UPN called Half and Half, now streaming on Netflix. She’s been in indie classics like The Craft, Half Baked, See Before. She’s been in Sundance films, horror, anthologies, and more.

Maybe you’ve seen her at conventions. Maybe you’ve shared one of her reactions as a gift. Maybe you own one of her Funko pop dolls, or use her tarot deck to develop and hone your own intuition. Let’s jump right into the conversation with Rachel true on honoring the wise voice within. I like to start these conversations with a question where you imagine for a moment that a bunch of people are following you around writing newspapers about your life.

What I’m curious to know is what would the current headline say? If you had a newspaper about your life, what would the current [00:02:00] headline of that newspaper say? 

[00:02:02] Rachel True: Uh, she’s a pandemic hermit and home body. Who’s luckily very entertained by herself. 

[00:02:09] Joe Towne: I mean,

[00:02:13] Rachel True: whatever, but like as far as what’s happening right now is it’s difficult to ignore the fact that we’ve been locked away for a couple of years. I have always found, um, a way to entertain myself. And the thing I’ve realized is what our interests outside of what we do. Right? So if you’re an actor or a podcast or a doctor, what other interests do you have?

Like lately on Instagram, I’ve been putting up these pictures of a things like sewn this dress right now. I made them design this dress and sold it because about a month before pandemic, no, January of whatever year, that was, uh, I was at a very fancy dinner party with Kathy [00:03:00] Griffin’s house. Everyone’s fame was put me in a big appeal in surprise when journalist is there.

And I said, Hey, listen, it’s a January. I’m hearing rumblings about this pandemic thing. Is it really? It’s like, it’s very real. So I got a sewing machine in January and, you know, I just kinda knew we were going to be locked down. I said, okay, I’m going to relearn so straight live. So while everyone else was baking bread, this is what I did in the beginning of the pandemic.

I thought, oh, you should be writing, should be doing this. You should be doing that. So then I took off those expectations of myself and I said, if emotionally you’re in a space where you cannot write, because what I write or what I have sold is nonfiction. Right. I just couldn’t wrap my head around it. And I thought, okay, I’m going to, I’m going to be okay with that.

Rather than speaking to myself the way, you know, we curse out our worst enemy, which is almost of us talk to ourselves in our head. Not maybe not Joe, you know, and I’ve worked on.

[00:03:59] Joe Towne: Yeah. [00:04:00] Especially I get really hard on myself and you know, I’m glad that there’s no speaker system plugged directly into the by self-talk. Cause it’s it’s my edge of growth is really is working on how I speak to myself because it affects how I look at others and how I speak to others 

[00:04:15] Rachel True: percentage. So true.

Because one of the things we’ll do now is when I start to sense a spin and a neurotic anxiety spin coming on, I’ll go, oh, oh, okay. There’s that spin? And I, this is so corny. I’m not saying people have to do this. You find your own way, but I’ll go there to that thought and I’ll lob it away. I literally picture my mind like right away, like a softball, a softball, and then,

but then I replace

boys or play a black drew. I am. Anyway. Um, you replace it with any other thoughts sometimes I can’t find I’m. So in the anxiety or the spin or the attack, I can’t find a coherent mom for thought. [00:05:00] So I’ll just say my name over and over again in my head. And because what that does is it pushes the. Thoughts away.

And I’ll also for anyone listening, it’s really good to ground yourself. Right? And can’t go outside and put your feet in the grass, which a lot of people can’t, you can just put your hand on the table, say this is real cable. That’s grounding, right? 

[00:05:26] Joe Towne: Calming down, rebalancing, coming back to earth. These are a few ways of describing what grounding can do for us.

We can ground ourselves, emotionally, mentally, and physically, emotionally. When our body is flooded with stress hormones, it can make us feel physically sick, especially over long exposures. In more extreme moments of dysregulation. We may find it difficult to switch off grounding techniques can [00:06:00] be anything that brings your attention to the present.

When the brain is experiencing a threat, whether it’s perceived or actual, it affects the nervous system. Similarly, as it activates our threat response, grounding techniques allow for the body to calm itself so that it sends the signal that there isn’t an actual threat. Some tools may be breath, try.

What’s called box breathing in which you’ll breathe in for four seconds. Hold for four seconds, breathe out for four seconds and hold the breath out for four seconds. And so on until you feel grounded touch. If you have a smaller pet, you can hold concentrate on how they feel in your hand. If they have for focus on how their fur feels, if not home, think of how they would comfort you.

If they were there. If you don’t have a pet, perhaps touch your favorite blanket or much loved t-shirt or [00:07:00] soft carpet, what are the sensations on your fingers? Physical tools include putting your hands in water, focus on the water’s temperature and how it feels on your fingertips, palms and the backs of your hands.

Does it feel the same in each part of your hand? Use warm water first, then cold. Next try. Cold water first, then warm. Does it feel different to switch from cold to warm water versus warm to cold holding a piece of. What does it feel like? How long does it take to start melting? How does this sensation change?

When the ice begins to melt earthing earthing also known as grounding refers to contact with the earth surface electrons by walking barefoot outside to transfer the energy from the ground into the body. They also have pads that replicate the conductive process. Emerging scientific research supports the [00:08:00] concept that the Earth’s electrons induce multiple physiological changes of clinical significance, including reduced pain, better sleep, a shift from sympathetic to parasympathetic tone in the autonomic nervous system and a blood thinning effect.

It can also help us with jet lag after long travels. Lastly, we can ground ourselves mentally repeat kind compassionate phrases to yourself. You’re having a rough time, but you’ll make it through you’re strong and you can move through this pain. You’re trying hard and you’re doing your best. Make yourself laugh, make up a silly joke.

The kind you’d find on a candy wrapper or a Popsicle stick, a clip from a comedian or a TV show you enjoy or anything else, you know, that will make you laugh. What do you notice grounds you the most. 

[00:08:53] Rachel True: And so like at my worst neurotic, I’ll just say my name, but if I fast, I will figure out what was that thought.

You’ll [00:09:00] never find love, right? Whatever it is. And then I lock it away and replace it with your attracting your luck, you know, whatever it is. I’ll just replay. I’ll just start spinning on that positive thought because it’s the same energy and I’m doing it to myself. So there’s 

[00:09:15] Joe Towne: some things in there that I really hear is that you’re looking for opportunities to turn what is a challenge that some people interpret one way into something that works for you.

So the first thing is entertain yourself. That’s the first thing I heard you say. And I imagine that that started. Really young. And when I get to that in a minute, but the idea of entertaining ourselves leads to different kinds of expression. I heard you say that you were doing things that were really about channeling and directing the focus of your mind and having an activity that wasn’t about being productive and that, you know, in the pandemic that we’ve been living through being productive was hard at times.

And so you gave yourself a break, but 

[00:09:56] Rachel True: let me also jump in and say, I like to be productive in my [00:10:00] own weird hippy-dippy way. So I do like that. I got a dress I can wear out of it. Does that make sense? Because I do like the productivity out of it, but it’s not my business thing. Right. It’s not acting or writing or something I could make money 

[00:10:14] Joe Towne: off.

Well, I wonder if it didn’t start as productivity, right? Like the idea of the book is an end in mind. And when you got your sewing machine, it sounds like you were like straight minds. Let me reconnect with this as an expression. And it’s now led to multiple garments that you’ve created that you can actually use.

And so hobbies is a great theme in here about like, what do we do outside of our craft? So I really heard that that was the name that you were. And 

[00:10:40] Rachel True: then let me also throw in the one thing I’ve learned through this pandemic is like, we can all learn to sell Sue the little better. And that’s how some of it’s how we were taught growing up, right from our parents.

We learned self self-soothing or maybe we didn’t. Or we develop bad habits as we got older. The other thing Joe is I realized I needed to learn my [00:11:00] cool-down point. If I get bad news, I am a Scorpio and I’m nuts for a good 45 minutes. And then I’m calm and fine after that. You 

[00:11:09] Joe Towne: mean, if you let yourself actually go through it, if you let yourself actually go through it, 

[00:11:15] Rachel True: I can be reactive.

Right. So if I get something rather than saying something to the person right away or answering the email right away, I’ve just kind of learned, shut up. Just be quiet, be quiet. Think about it, process it. Cause my first reaction is going to be over the top angry probably. And then I have to bring it down and down and down to somewhere.

That’s real because that anger is fight or flight response. It’s not really real. It’s not, 

[00:11:42] Joe Towne: it makes a ton of sense. Yeah. I’m so glad you brought that up. The idea of putting a pause before reacting so we can choose our response. Do you really shared with us so many nuggets of wisdom and you’re giving us some sneak previews of some places that I want to go.

I want to start if we can back in time a little bit with big [00:12:00] dreams. So I’m curious. Do you, do you recall the first big dream that you remember having.

[00:12:09] Rachel True: I was it on blood, on the aisle of log, which is law in Guyland for the rest of use?

Uh, I was, I was in, um, you know, what my sister explained to me that I was in foster care. I just thought I lived with other people. My sister was like, yeah, when you were in foster care. And I was like, what? Anyway. So then I had to process that as an adult. But, um, so when I was in foster care was very nice people, by the way.

Lovely, lovely, lovely. From like zero to four, they would get the Sunday times. And, um, you know, I looked through, it would do the result coloring thing and all this stuff for kids. Really. My most exciting thing that I loved about the Sunday times was the real estate section, because I remember being, I must’ve been three or four going, did you guys know you can buy a castle and your own 

[00:12:58] Joe Towne: island?[00:13:00] 

[00:13:02] Rachel True: So I made him, you’re asking, what am I being your dream castle in my own island? Honestly, like I was just a little kid going, that’s what I want. And then cyber to my other big dream. I remember crying. Uh, when I was a little older, like crying myself to sleep after watching a Hardy boys episode with Sean Cassidy and I wasn’t crying, I had a question on Cassie.

My tears were, oh, that I’m not with him. My tears were that I wasn’t already in Hollywood being an actress. 

[00:13:32] Joe Towne: Okay. You, you wanted to be in the stories. You, you knew that from a really young 

[00:13:36] Rachel True: age, John Cassie, but I was more just a caramel in this TV show and acting like 

[00:13:42] Joe Towne: I, it’s funny that the castle thing, I didn’t know that that makes so much sense between the castle and, and being on screen.

I had read it at some point you wanted to be a ballerina who rode horses when you were five. 

[00:13:58] Rachel True: I mean, maybe you didn’t, you know, [00:14:00] but listen, the thing I’ve learned now about like gen X is we are one of the hopefully last gens to be so 

[00:14:06] Joe Towne: conditioned. My son is now five. Talk to me about, cause I’m really hope, hoping I can help him foster his own imagination.

So talk to me about where your imagination first got peaked and sparked. 

[00:14:21] Rachel True: It was unfortunate. I had a mother who was an actress, but I didn’t go live with her till about four or five. So I think that was part of really the acting dream came from because one thing. My step-mom is we get along great. Now, when I was a kid, not as we weren’t as tight as I would have liked how’s that?

And 

[00:14:42] Joe Towne: she was a little bit more aloof at first. 

[00:14:44] Rachel True: Right? Well, always under now, which is interesting to me because we did not hug in my household full disclosure. Joe knows my family. We’ve known each other. I’ve known him since he was born. I have actually. So, you know, you knew my dad and my dad was really [00:15:00] smart, really interesting.

Um, really clever, got my brain from him, all those things. Also possibly a little self centered. Uh, we’ll leave it at that. But, um, he would do something that I think a bunch of parents do come back from school, show him a drawing I made or a thing I made. And this is what he would say. He would go, oh, oh, you’re in that stage.

I remember that stage. And then he went and so I’m seven. All it feels to a kid is invalidated. 

[00:15:33] Joe Towne: You want to be seen, you want to share this 

[00:15:36] Rachel True: on every level, because if you say, oh, you’re in that stage kid and the kid goes, oh, I, I didn’t, I, it’s not new. It’s not original. I’m not interesting. I’m not, I’m not, I’m not doing anything worth doing.

I must not be smart or important. That’s how I felt. So my dad obviously didn’t do that on purpose. He was just slightly a narcissist. I think, you know, [00:16:00] separate from bipolar. Narcissism, but bipolar. And he was not a medicine when I was young. He definitely got calmer once I was way as an adult and out of the house.

Um, so I think things like that are, are challenging and you’re not that kind of parent, I don’t think you know that you’re going to foster, you’re going to show this drawing and you’re really going to foster that sense in your child that they did this. So 

[00:16:27] Joe Towne: that’s a good thing to circle in on. And I think whether it was a result of his condition or whether it was a result of that generation and that Gulf between knowing how to connect exactly with children, particularly with, with dads and their kids, it could be because I think I had very similar and I observe it in the grandparents.

[00:16:48] Rachel True: I’m going to say freedom. I see you giving freedom to your child and your Instagram posts. Part of being an adult, I really think is realizing that everyone try to do the best they could for the most part, because they [00:17:00] see a lot of grown-ups lot of 40 year olds out there still blaming their parents. And I would like to encourage you to look, look inside yourself and say, this is my story.

This happened. I didn’t like it. It was terrible. How can I overcome this? Because I say, you know what I’ve said to a lot of my white friends too. It’s so bad, but I’ve said you need to think like a black. Especially for the last two years or so. I’ve got a lot of people go, it’s not fair. It’s a fair, there’s a pandemic.

It’s not fair. Cause they haven’t heard a black person say that because we know life isn’t fair. I’m a hundred percent clear that life is not fair. You know? Uh, so it’s about, I think, do you think it takes a while to recognize when things aren’t going the way they want? I know where my tough years I struggle.

I was like, I can’t believe this, you know, for a good while. Uh, so again, we have to go through that when things aren’t going our way up, I, uh, denial, there are seven stages of grief. We all know this. If you’ve dealt 

[00:17:59] Joe Towne: with [00:18:00] stages of denial are there, 

[00:18:02] Rachel True: but we can all get, if you look at the stages of, of a giant, even the first one is denial, right?

So a lot of us, including me, got stuck in the, I know this is not all blur. So once we get to the understanding, that’s galvanized you go, oh, okay. I can change this. Then I see what the playing field is. And I can work with this because in the NGO, I didn’t think I was going to write a book in my life, but it just ended up that way because I went, oh, there’s this?

And that’s exciting to me. 

[00:18:29] Joe Towne: You had a lot to say there. Yeah. So, okay. You brought up your dad, you brought up your stepmom and it sounds like you came to live with them maybe around five. And I didn’t know this until I was starting to do a little digging that you actually lived in New York city before moving upstate.

So you were in the east village, you spent a good part of your life in east village. I wonder. Could you paint like a picture of little, you exploring the world around that time in the east village. If you don’t 

[00:18:56] Rachel True: know anything about New York in the seventies, I was the rotten big [00:19:00] apple. So it’s not like now it’s a, it was a filthy, it was dirty.

It was disgusting. It was fabulous. New York city though, because it was gritty. It was real. We had a lot of ethnic diversity. So for me living there, um, I loved it. You know, we were on 10th street between first and second. And, uh, you had the theater right there, Julian box theater, the new something. Anyway, all this is all old stuff.

Love mama, all that was right there. And there’s a methadone clinic on the corner. So you’d see the junkies melting down and then you’d have like the, the, um, drag queen trans best sites were always had the best Afro pots. I was so envious of their air. Um, so all of that was just, you know, and pigeons.

That’s what I remember.

It was a really gritty New York city. And so I actually really love New York city because I think it helped foster my independence, like. [00:20:00] Walking to the library by myself, you know, in New York city, you’re a New York city kid. Once you’re nine, you’re pretty much like, yeah, go with God on the subway and all that.

So I love, and I would do all this stuff by myself. You know, I didn’t drag my parents to go to the library, puppet show or book reading with me. And I think that’s probably why I’m okay. Uh, spending time with myself and also in New York city, you are around everybody. There are so many people around. I feel like that’s also part of why I don’t feel lonely because I know there’s.

[00:20:34] Joe Towne: Yeah. You mentioned the subway and you know, you shared the story about potentially your first encounter with racism. And so you’re with your stepmom and you’re, you’re on the subway and there’s some rowdy boys down to the end. Walk us through what happened when you came out of that subway 

[00:20:51] Rachel True: little, I couldn’t have been older than five or six and we were honest.

And I remember for some reason I can think of the statue of Liberty. So I must’ve been on a subway where you could [00:21:00] see it was above ground. You can see the statue of Liberty at one point. Anyway, there were rowdy teenagers and they weren’t rowdy like dangerous. Even I wasn’t threatened. They were just the way kids could.

Joel teenagers could Joel. I’m so old fat cajole you guys

anyway. So they were being really loud and we were getting off the train and this older white woman, who’d been like so noisy, we’re getting off the train and she swats me five, by the way, four or five. I’m not a teenager obviously. And she swapped me with her purse in her hand. And there’s a precious time.

I really thought, oh, okay. My stepfather, who, I didn’t really know how she felt about me. She turned around and was so ferocious because first of all, Karen, there, wasn’t a word for Karen back then. Right? But obviously this is a peak Karen moment for you to just SWAT at anyone brown right. Is insane. But that is how, [00:22:00] uh, I think a certain amount of white people think because you know, to just, it’s not what you’re asking, but to pivot to this, it’s really hard on my psyche.

And a lot of people’s psyche, white or black, if you’re aware, just to see people today saying, no, we can’t learn about race, critical race theory, or we can’t this or that because I learned that slaves really liked sleep. That was in my textbook. Once we moved to upstate and I was a little older and they had outdated textbooks, but still, this was the sentiment.

The thing I learned, 

[00:22:32] Joe Towne: state textbook, there’s a New York state textbook 

[00:22:35] Rachel True: textbook

[00:22:40] Joe Towne: 8 20 18 report from the Southern poverty law center. SPLC teaching hard history, American slavery found that more than half of teachers, 58% polled, weren’t happy with their textbooks. And almost 40% said that their state offered little or no support for teaching about slavery. [00:23:00] Also in 2018, the NAACP provided a resolution speaking out against the problematic representation of African-Americans in our education system.

The challenge in Texas is that peer reviewed research has shown that the textbooks courses and standards have in many ways, historically excluded communities of color. In fact, research by professors from the university of Texas at Austin, analyze the Texas standards and textbooks and found that communities of color have been often exclude.

And sometimes misrepresented in the curriculum and textbooks. A guardian analysis has found that private schools, especially Christian schools use textbooks that tell a version of history that is racially biased and often inaccurate. These textbooks used in thousands of private schools, many of which receive tens of thousands of dollars in public funding every year.

Whitewash the legacy of slavery, framed [00:24:00] native Americans as lesser and blame. The black lives matter movement for sewing racial discord. Why is it that the textbooks have been slow to incorporate black humanity in their slavery narratives? 400 years ago, a group of about 20 Africans were captured in the African interior, probably near modern day and Gola and forcibly transported on a slave ship heading to the Americas.

After tumultuous months at sea, they landed a shore in the first British colony in north America, Jamestown, Virginia in late August 16, 19 Hasan’s elementary history of the United States, a story and lesson, a popular early 20th century textbook for young readers picks up the story of the first black Virginians from there in the book written 1903, it says the settlers brought them and found them so helpful in raising tobacco that more were brought in [00:25:00] and slavery became part of our.

The book included very little about 16, 19, and the role slavery played in the formation of the United States. This is even true of textbooks use today 400 years after African 16, 19 arrival, more than 150 years after emancipation, the narratives are more interested in emphasizing the compassion of enslavers than the cruelty endured by the enslaved.

The Hasan’s textbook, framed Jamestown and its role in the development of us slavery. As an inevitable matter of labor demand, a common argument in us school materials at the turn of the 20th century, a child’s history of North Carolina circa 1916, focuses on slavery’s profitability and erased it’s violence.

In this view, the enslaved people were happy and Southern slave owners were reluctant masters at best. According to the book, enslaved people were allowed all the freedom they [00:26:00] seem to want and were given the privilege of visiting other plantations when they chose to do so. All that was required of them was to be in place.

When work time came at the holiday season, they were almost as free as their masters in 2012 and Atlanta elementary school posed this homework question. If Frederick got two beatings per day, how many beatings did he get in one week, two weeks? And just last year, San Antonio, Texas parents complained about a history homework assignment that asked eighth graders to list positive and negative aspects of slavery.

It turns out the activity was directly tied to a textbook used by the school for about 10 years. Prentice hall classics, a history of the United States argued that all slave owners were not cruel. A few slaves, never felt the lash and many may not have even been terribly unhappy with their lot. For they knew no other, a Harvard historian, Donald Yacovoni [00:27:00] was researching a book on the legacy of the anti-slavery movement.

When he came across some old history school textbooks that stopped him cold and led him to write a different book. He said, he thought his research would be pretty quick. Bada Bing, he’d look at a few textbooks and keep going. But a boom. He found about 3000 textbooks in total. He came across 1 18 32 book history of the United States by Noah Webster.

The gentlemen who’s responsible for our dictionary. This is what he said in Webster’s book. There was nothing about the institution of slavery, despite the fact that it was a central American institution. There were no African-Americans ever mentioned. And what he realized from this book and from the subsequent ones was how they defined American as white and only white.

Anything that was less than an Anglo-Saxon was not a true. Americans tend to see racism as a result of Southern slavery. He says, and this thinking has all kinds [00:28:00] of problems. First of all, slavery was in the north as well as the south. And the people who formed the idea of American identity were not Southern slave owners.

They were northerners. The father of white supremacy was not a southerner. It was John H van, every a Canadian who ended up settling in New York city. Then every argue that if no slaves existed, the class-based structure of Europe would have developed in the American colonies, the 1886 textbook children’s stories of American progress, condemn slavery as immoral, but also portrayed Africans as inferior to Europeans.

Henry had a Christian right known for her popular stories of fairies and magic. Describe that day in August 16, 19 as a time when the Meadows alongside the James river were quote beautiful with summer a site lost on the African captives, her portrayal of the inferiority of black people reflected a common belief among [00:29:00] white Americans, even some former abolitionists accounts like hers shaped how generations of white Americans thought about their black compatriots and according to a rising cadre of black educators.

How black Americans who read such textbooks, thought about themselves. 

[00:29:18] Rachel True: So the things I learned all made me feel shit were designed. I felt like to make me feel shitty for being black, to be a hundred percent on it, because I always thought I was pretty cool looking my hair, my golden skin. I love it all.

But everything was designed so that the white kids would leave social studies class and go, you guys are dumb. Black people are stupid. You liked slavery. You like this, 

[00:29:41] Joe Towne: but this is the systemic part of racism, right? The, when people are not just talking about being triggered yourself and getting defensive and not recognizing your own privilege, this is the systemic part of it that most people don’t consider.

And what I’m hearing you say is that during the pandemic, [00:30:00] there’s really an opportunity here. Like you said, people of color, we’re not surprised that life is hard, but it doesn’t mean nobody else thought that life was hard, but it means that if we put ourselves into another perspective, we put ourselves into somebody else’s shoes.

It’s possible that that empathy that comes from that will really open our eyes to some of the things that were right under our noses the whole time. And that we did not know 

[00:30:25] Rachel True: I have empathy, uh, because I’m an empath right. Or sensitive, but I have empathy even for the white model. It’s man. Right now I do, because I get how, if you were that white guy.

The whole system has been designed for you your whole life. And now you get to this moment and it’s being jerked away. Well, that, that other white guy, you know, he’s still doing it, he’s doing it, but you got caught. I understand. It’s a confusing time for white men. I don’t mean I have empathy for their play.

I mean, I have empathy for the confusion around a time of change. Does that make sense? Because I [00:31:00] like the distinction. And if we’re talking about those texts, but you could be a little cool white kid with no perception of race, right. Maybe even have cool parents, but you’re in school and you start learning that black people really like slavery because they, uh, you know, had houses and, um, that they’re lazy and all these things, your cool white kid suddenly becomes indoctrinated.

Right. Even though he’s cool, but he’s going, oh, but you know, written down, it must 

[00:31:25] Joe Towne: be history, right? It’s written there in black and white and 

[00:31:28] Rachel True: the native Americans must’ve been stupid if they couldn’t hold their land, if they gave it away for $24, their idiot, you know, all that kind of stuff is in the books.

So it shapes the minds of whiteness. And when I was a kid, I remember my parents, well, they said a lot of sort of things, but I remember them saying like, you gotta be careful with your white friends. And I’m looking at my white dad and black step-mom. I’m confused. This is hard for me. I don’t understand what you’re saying that because you’re sitting there as a mixed couple, [00:32:00] but the sad truth is I have actually, I understand what they were saying now because I’ve had a certain amount of friends who, in the end, when it really comes down to a push, comes to shove, they’re gonna, you know, N-word me, that’s how they see me.

Or, you know, I’m their black hot black, when I was younger, my friends and NYU used to call me their hot black friend. And I remember saying, why can’t I just be your friend? Where’s the distinction. And the other thing about this area, and I have a question for you as a parent, I really detest it when you know, parents, especially, um, white parents, but all parents have a mixed friends.

And though we don’t, we don’t distinguish on race. We don’t see race. We don’t see bitch. I see your color. And it’s beautiful. So why are you telling me you don’t see it, that little child is going to go into the world and experience? 

[00:32:49] Joe Towne: I think that it’s part of the story that we were told, and it really centered around a misunderstanding [00:33:00] of what Martin Luther king represented.

Right? And the idea was we don’t see colors and improvement over treating people through the lens of supremacy. But what I’m hearing is that everything evolves and our relationship to racism also needs to evolve. And that’s why I think we’re hearing it’s not enough. To nutsy color, you need to be anti-racist and you need to work against the systems.

The first, maybe step is seeing color and not getting skiddish about that, because I think so many people don’t want to step in it when they don’t know. They’re like, oh, I’m uncomfortable. Right. Well, okay. Let’s get uncomfortable. And let’s start to look at not only what our places, but what are we doing, right.

If we’re standing by that is something that we’re doing by not doing 

[00:33:52] Rachel True: sir. I’ve said to my, um, Caucasians for as long as I’ve been in LA, um, [00:34:00] it doesn’t count coming out of my mouth. They don’t care. I’m black. It doesn’t matter. But if you say it, your whiteness and talking about the nineties. So I certainly didn’t use the word privilege because that wasn’t in the vernacular then.

But the truth is, 

[00:34:15] Joe Towne: well, there were shows celebrating privilege, right? I mean, you recurred on some of them. So 

[00:34:19] Rachel True: I did, I was, I remember I was added to an ABC show and the show runner literally goes at the network party. He goes, oh, Hey, Rachel, thanks for coming. And being our token.

[00:34:32] Joe Towne: According to a recent panel at Vanderbilt university, the definition of tokenism is quote, the practice of doing something such as hiring a person who belongs to a minority group only to prevent criticism and give the appearance that people are being treated fairly. To go a bit further. Tokenism is the practice of making only a perfunctory or symbolic effort to be inclusive to members of minority groups, especially by recruiting people from underrepresented [00:35:00] groups in order to give the appearance of racial or gender equality within a workplace or educational context.

The effort of including a token individual in work or school is usually intended to create the impression of social inclusiveness and diversity, racial, religious, sexual, et cetera. There are three components to preventing tokenism diversity, equity and inclusion. Diversity means having students or staff from a variety of backgrounds, including ethnicity, race, gender, socioeconomic class, sexual orientation, and nationality equity ensures that everyone has equal access to resources.

For example, salaries, networking and mentors. Inclusivity means that each member no matter their background feels welcomed and valued within the group. Sidney Portier the renowned Hollywood actor, director, and activist who commanded the [00:36:00] screen, reshape the culture and paved the way for countless other black actors has said he felt a responsibility to represent black X.

At a time when the vast majority of movie stars were white and many black performers were relegated to subservient or buffoonish roles, he once wrote about the experience of being the only black person on a movie set and said, I felt very much as if I was representing 18 million people with every move I made 

[00:36:31] Rachel True: and I’m a very truthful person.

So on a certain level, I don’t even mind that shit. You know, like I think that the why I was hired and you should pay me more truthfully. Um, but it is important. I think it is imperative for, uh, for everybody to be aware and to be vocal and speak up because I’ve let go of a lot of people over the years for silly things.

Well, that sounds silly. But if they’re telling me about their Thanksgiving with their racist parents and their uncle, and I’m listening year after year, I’m [00:37:00] done after a while. If you won’t speak up, because now it’s on you, my friend. So just gracefully, let go of those things. Like, no, you got to make a stand because listen, I get 25 and under, you may put up with things you’re a little uncomfortable with because you’re just sort of feeling it out and you’re afraid to make a stand.

Like I have a friend, a friend, well, we’re not friends anymore, but someone who let his friends call him he in high school because he was the only Jew. No, that’s not your friend. Okay. Not your friends. 

[00:37:32] Joe Towne: We sort of jumped by this, but your dad is Hungarian Jewish, right? And your background on your mom’s side, it sounds like she has some African-American and also some native American, everybody 

[00:37:42] Rachel True: on the island of long has some native, I think a little bit.

Um, yeah. You know what? I did my, I did my DNA test and I was a big old too. I was, as you know, I was crazy. I was a lot too. 

[00:37:55] Joe Towne: That’s awesome. Okay. So you went upstate, you encountered [00:38:00] quite a bit. I want to sort of just maybe acknowledge you had some racist neighbors. You had a shotgun pulled on you by one of your first experiences up there.

You experienced it again in school, your sat scores were off the charts, but you were told that a community college might be better for you. You scored a hundred percent in your Regents and somebody cried about it and you got reduced down in 96%. So like you’ve experienced this over and over again. And you’re like, get me out of here.

So you go to New York and you go to NYU. And at first it sounds like you went there for journalism, even though you wanted to act, right. 

[00:38:39] Rachel True: That’s fine. They were like, you can’t study 

[00:38:40] Joe Towne: arts, right. Well, and it sounds like you wanted to be an actor. You, you knew that from the stories you were watching on TV and you were crying about and you have that longing in your heart.

And then there’s this moment. I didn’t know about you, that you, you watched Phillip Seymour Hoffman perform a monologue, John Patrick Shanley monologue, and something inside of you. [00:39:00] Cracks open and you decide to go for it. What do you recall about that audition experience for NYU now? Trying to switch majors?

[00:39:09] Rachel True: Oh, it’s awful. I mean, here’s the thing I’ve wanted something so much, right? When you want something so much, I can get in fight or flight. I can get in spaces when I want something so much. I can just stop. Right. And be still like a, like a deer in headlight. So I wanted to switch, but I kind of was, I had so much desire to be an actor, but I hadn’t really studied yet a little bit, but not enough.

And so I just kind of got choked up with it, to be honest, you know? Um, and wasn’t as prepared 

[00:39:44] Joe Towne: as I could was it was partly preparation. I think you also said a little bit, maybe there was some nerves, right. And you realized that that had to do with it. You’re incredibly sad and disappointed. You probably, as you said, you beat yourself up a little bit.

It sounds to me like it there’s a pivot that [00:40:00] happened right. First you paused and you re you reflected on what happened. You’re like, okay. Maybe it was somebody who had nerves. Maybe it has something to do with, um, you know, I’m beating myself up a little bit. I’m not as prepared as I could be, but you get on your craft and you go to HB studios, right.

You studied with Earl Hyman for Shakespeare. And so you’re training in New York city to be a. And there’s a big leap that you do. I’m jumping a little bit ahead in time. It’s a big leap that you do where you, you seek to be a stand in on a hit show. 

[00:40:31] Rachel True: Well, I want to, first of all, I didn’t want to be, I had just gotten over mano and my friend was like, there’s this open call for a stand?

And I was like, I’m not a stand. And I just did a movie. I just did a movie and indie movie, shitty little Lindy, and you really should do this. You should go and stand in. You know, I was like, I don’t want to be a fucking stand in, but I went to the, I went anyway because it was like, well, F it, you know, cause I’m bartending and might as well go do this.

And the [00:41:00] line just to be a standard was around the whole entire problem for the story I’m blocking, you know how big that studio is. Joe it’s know what we’re talking. Three city blocks on each side, I think. And so anyway, the fact that I got hired out of that is insane to me. 

[00:41:15] Joe Towne: Well, so, but I want to talk about this moment because it sounds to me like when you finally came time for you to get read the wardrobe, right?

You’re waiting there forever. You go into the fitting in the wardrobe. 

[00:41:27] Rachel True: It’s not a fitting. What happens is I go in what they brought us in, in groups, Jo groups of three or four to get. To go meet the, uh, the ads and the derive stage director. Right? So there’s no wardrobe, we’re not high. We’re just people we go with were just being in groups of three or four saying if you’re not an actor, all that means is that there are other people pulling focus.

This is not good. There’s three other people here, but I [00:42:00] happen to be wearing like a very, uh, benighted stylist, forties, thirties, forties dress, I think is what you’re referring to. And the, the a stage manager, Maynard, who I actually have. Um said, uh, oh, that’s at least the boat name address. And I said, no, it’s not as a Rachel true dress.

[00:42:18] Joe Towne: That’s the moment. Yeah. So I didn’t realize you had brought that wardrobe with you. That makes so much sense because

[00:42:25] Rachel True: the current, all Koran styles, you know what I’m saying? Like they just like dancers or hip hop and I’m in this 1940s. 

[00:42:32] Joe Towne: Yeah, totally. Yeah. You’re rocking that style. And I’m curious to know, because you have such self-belief right. You’re like, I just did this indie, you come from getting rejected from the theater school of your dreams into doing a movie.

And now, like, I don’t even know if I want to audition and be a stand-in, but you go and they say, that’s a Lisa boney dress. And you’re like, no, it’s a Rachel true dress. So where does that self belief come 

[00:42:57] Rachel True: from? I think I’m a little bit of an asshole. [00:43:00] 

[00:43:00] Joe Towne: Does that mean you’re willing to be seen and you don’t care what people think sometimes?

Like, is that what that means? Or at times 

[00:43:06] Rachel True: I’m not always like that. Right. I care. I come home from an, uh, thing and I’ll beat my I’ll replay a conversation the same way everyone else does. So I’m not above any of that, but yes, I do have. I think I do have a sense of self, right? You need a healthy sense of self to walk in a room and be like, pick me up.

And that can dip into narcissism depending on who it is. So I try to be real careful with that because I’ve, we’ve all been around the narcissistic actor and it’s very unpalatable. It’s very unpalatable. So, um, I don’t know where it came from. I think it’s, I know what you said. You’ll probably agree. I don’t have kids.

Uh, unfortunately I couldn’t because of the health thing that I had going on, don’t you think they kind of pop out where their personalities come on? Once they’re past the, the [00:44:00] blob of just baby, there’s definitely nature. There’s nurture for sure. 

[00:44:05] Joe Towne: And I think that self-belief and confidence can be trained.

And I think that there’s a difference between the erosion of it. Like, I think about all the criticism as like chopping into a tree with an ax, and I think about appreciating and acknowledging and being seen and seeing ourselves and rewriting those tapes. That is what builds that confidence. And so it sounds to me like New York city helped.

It sounds to me like having a few reps living through disappointment and then also having some success, like you can point to, I was just in this movie, 

[00:44:38] Rachel True: pointed out something really great, which is having some. Having some failures is very motivating. Once you peel yourself off the floor, you know, like in, you’re allowed to be on the floor and crying and all that stuff or whatever.

But you know, at a certain point, you’ve got to peel yourself off the floor, get back up galvanize. And I, you know, I think, I think it [00:45:00] partially does come from being black, to be honest and being told, no, you can’t, you can’t. I was like, really? Oh really? Oh really? Oh, is that what you think really though? And I’m a Scorpio, you know, which means I will sing you and me.

And then we’ll both 

[00:45:16] Joe Towne: be it’s the scorpion and the scorpion instead of the scorpion and the frog. Yeah.

Scorpio is the eighth sign of the Zodiac. It means those born between October 23rd and November 21st represented by a stinging scorpion. This is one fierce sign, a water sign. This sign is about passion, excitement, and living life to the fullest. Originating from the constellation of Scorpius the word Scorpio dates back to 13, 50 to 1400.

It comes from the Latin word Scorpio, meaning scorpion, some famous Scorpios. Pablo Picasso [00:46:00] will be Goldberg. Lisa boney, Marie Antoinette’s Siara and Ryan Gosling to name a few Scorpios can sting each other sometimes. But there’s so much more to those born under this fascinating sign. Here’s some words that describe the other great traits of Scorpios tenacious.

When Scorpios set their mind to something, watch out, there’s nothing that can stand in their way. They have a laser focus and are willing to work doggedly to achieve their goals. Intuitive Scorpios tend to have certain sense about things. They read people well and have good instincts that help navigate social and business situations.

Well, ardent when Scorpios likes something or someone, they really like them. And when they decide to devote themselves to someone or something, they go all in. They are fiercely passionate and give their heart and soul to people and causes that they care about magnetic. There’s something about Scorpios that [00:47:00] draws people to them.

Their zest for life is contagious and people want to be associated with it. They’re excellent conversationalists, and they want to know everything about other people, which many find flattering. This sign is. Seductive. And some may say simply irresistible thrilling. There’s never a dull moment around a Scorpio.

They’re always up for a good time and they won’t rest until they find one they’re thrill seekers and being around them often means you’re in for a wild ride. Scorpio in Greek mythology comes from the story of Orion. This giant of a man was the son of Poseidon and Uriel, and was also said to be the most handsome man alive.

He and Artemis were hunting partners. He went to mother earth and asked her to create a giant scorpion, which then stung and killed Orion. 

[00:47:52] Rachel True: The higher my vibe is right. The more magnanimous I am and electric and fabulous. And in my power, [00:48:00] the more everyone else is annoying. Energy goes away anyway, you know, like their energy can’t even penetrate 

[00:48:07] Joe Towne: well, they must’ve seen something in you, uh, because you ended up playing the role of Nikki and you were in multiple episodes.

Uh, both of your episodes have Theo in the title, 

[00:48:17] Rachel True: character name 

[00:48:20] Joe Towne: and DVD, which will come back as a character later. What do you remember most about your first recurring on this hit TV show? What do you, what stands out to you about your role? 

[00:48:29] Rachel True: Oh, I was petrified and scared, you know, I would say 99% of my useful.

Acting’s just petrified and scared. That’s my truth on that because I want, like, I S like I said, I wanted it to so much that quite often I choked. Because I had such great. Does that fear of failure, fear of success, right? It’s probably all wrapped into that, but the thing I remember the most, uh, I think, you know, in the end it was a really good job.

It was like the number one show on TV. I had never really been [00:49:00] on a sitcom soundstage. I didn’t know how it worked. I learned so much because when you’re a stand and by the way, I’m going to be standing just stands there. You kind of don’t move. You’re just there for the light. Jamie, stand-ins a little different, you run through the blocking as a film stand and does as well.

But on TV you’re saying the lines. So obviously you’re not competing with the person whose part it is or anything 

[00:49:22] Joe Towne: like that. 

[00:49:24] Rachel True: You’re getting some practice in, in some reps. And also by, I think the second year I did, I was like, if I can make the crew laugh, that’s a good sign. You know that I know, uh, one of the directors de Sandra two passed away last year.

Um, but really terrific director had pulled me aside and said, you know, you have something. And I was like, whoa, he’s like, you have something you have. And what he was saying was I’m watching you on the monitor. And even though you’re just standing in, you have a presence. And I know that he wasn’t saying that to every standard, right.

Or everyone who came through the chance to watch [00:50:00] amazing people work, um, who came through that set and learning to quorum, how to act, you know, protocol on set all those 

[00:50:08] Joe Towne: things while this is going on in the Filmora. You book a role, kind of a big one, and there’s this move that you make out west now it’s not your first time out west.

What I loved about your journey is you sort of had a sneak preview of New York city really young, then you moved away and then you like came back and you lived there and you sort of first stop. And then you had a visit out to LA and poked around a little bit, and then you make this big leap. But what I’m curious, you know, you booked this feature.

You’re in, you’re in CB four opposite Chris rock. So it takes a bit of courage to do the New York to LA move. What was peeking inside of you that led you to make that leap? 

[00:50:47] Rachel True: I always said I moved to LA when it called me or calls me Joe,

my 2 1, 2 number. And this [00:51:00] was the call. I felt like, you know, I was like, well, you’re probably not going to get another, you might, but here’s an opportunity to just go and you’re going to be shooting this movie for two months. You might as well pack it up. And honestly it was really appealing because the thought of constantly auditioning against Tony winners in New York city, it was 

[00:51:19] Joe Towne: really John.

Can I get a break 

[00:51:24] Rachel True: when you’re a young actor? It’s tough because all the triple threats, a singer actor, dancers, you know, moved to New York city, I guess, same origin. Do you know what a tragedy that is as a black person? In fact, I remember for Rona, this is here’s the things that we need to be careful as parents, right?

Because this anything terrible, but it scarred me for life. She said, I’m four I’m the cousins are there. Maybe I was six. Cousins are there and she looks down and he just, oh, Rachel, you can dance and you can sing. And she wasn’t wrong, [00:52:00] but it didn’t stamp me with that because I’m, the rhythm was trial in the group.

How you just start dancing with me. Right? Because part of the thing I’ve realized as an adult is part of why it’s rhythm lists. I never saw you, people dance. My friends, their parents were dancing and putting on some music and everybody, the kids, the parents were just, we didn’t do that. So I’m not saying that’s why I have no rhythm.

I have to read them because I have no rhythm. I’m saying I didn’t get in the prep. We didn’t watch. So we didn’t watch soul train. We didn’t have all right. I didn’t have the model. So with this new thing, this is what I say is, you know, you can lead by different ways than critiquing. Cause again, when my dad was, when we were older, my sister was living in New York city.

Oh, Joe knows very well. They’re the same. Um, three 

[00:52:51] Joe Towne: blocks from each other, also in the east village while she was at NYU, the same 

[00:52:56] Rachel True: building, I lived 

[00:52:56] Joe Towne: in the same building, overlooking Tompkins square park. 

[00:52:59] Rachel True: [00:53:00] Yes. And seventh and eighth. But, uh, you know, me, I’ve always been curvy. I go up, I go down sometimes I’m sin.

Sometimes I’m curvy, whatever, but my dad always hated that because these are very innocuous things. What I’m saying is, Hey, if you’re a parent, maybe think about those things. 

[00:53:15] Joe Towne: Yeah. What I’m hearing is that, that it’s sometimes the offhanded comment or the tiny thing, or the lack of encouragement that, that actually plays out in quite a big way.

And so I’m really appreciative that you’re, that you’re bringing some of those up, especially as a parent, to be able to hear some of those. 

[00:53:32] Rachel True: I think that’s why I’m bringing up because I’m sort of in between moments. It’s not the I’m so disappointed in you when you fucked up. Cause I know I did something wrong or I didn’t do the dishes or whatever.

It’s the other times when I think we’re commuting is people right? Not parent to parent child, but just we’re having a conversation as a person. Or I still respond the same way by the way, because I think I showed something else I made to someone. And the first thing they [00:54:00] said was they go, oh, that’s cool.

But I would do this. I would change this, this, this and this. And, and I had the same response I did when I was a kid in my mind, not to them because I’m an adult now. But my first response was, oh,

[00:54:17] Joe Towne: Mostly, we’re hearing a little bit of, you know, I think as parents, there’s an invitation to simply see what is in front of us and name that instead of being hyperbolic, maybe we’re working a lot and we feel guilty and we say something like this is the most beautiful picture I’ve ever seen, because you need to do that.

You’re laying a trap for the next time when you’re busy and you don’t, 

[00:54:38] Rachel True: and your generation didn’t help your generation, it gives an award for everything. No, it did it. And I say, this is a gen X-er who? We got nothing. We got no, every year I was told you’re the worst class you’re in the worst class I’ve ever taught you.

We’re all terrible. That’s all we heard every year. So it’s very different than millennials who I see why you were fostered so much. But I will [00:55:00] say I have a lot of millennials come to me, not willing to do the work. And that’s frustrating for me. And I’m not saying all of them, but a lot of them are very unclear.

Like they’ll do a first draft of something. And they’re like, and I’m like, that’s really, this is good. But now go back and rewrite it. And they’re like, but I wrote, they don’t under, it’s a process. People it’s a process. Well, I think 

[00:55:24] Joe Towne: part of it is celebrating process instead of outcome. So instead of celebrating identity, I hear grandparents saying all the time, what are you going to be?

Are you going to be this? Or you’re going to be that? And I’m like, let them just enjoy playing. Right? 

[00:55:37] Rachel True: Like rom does says, right. Be here now in this moment. 

[00:55:42] Joe Towne: The thing I was going to say earlier about maybe a tool that we’re learning and we’re taught to us by his school is to ask the question, wow, I see what you drew there.

What made you think to add those sparkles? How did you come up with making it purple? [00:56:00] 

[00:56:00] Rachel True: And it 

[00:56:00] Joe Towne: opens up such a dialogue instead of it being about, you know, the outcome and, you know, I noticed him going. Yeah. Cause he says all the time, like, he’s like, is this cool? Is this cool? Is that cool? That I did. That is that cool.

And I don’t know where that came from, but I’m trying. Interrupt him constantly scanning for other people think is cool. And I’m trying to get him interested in what he is doing, his process and his curiosity and his wonder, oh, 

[00:56:29] Rachel True: that’s terrific. Because I think a lot of parents, at least when I was a kid I’m talking back in the day, they probably didn’t do that.

[00:56:39] Joe Towne: Being a parent can sometimes feel like a path Laden with landmines. And as parents, we are many of us learning as we go, kids make art, sometimes loads of it. And we might try to praise our children for their art. But what happens when we tell them we like their race car, but we learned that they meant to draw puppy, [00:57:00] or when looking at a red circle, if you say what a cool balloon only to find out that it’s grandpa, maybe we don’t know what to say.

So we simply say good job. Kids are more motivated when we notice and encourage their efforts and process. Since that’s the part they can actively control. So maybe we can come in with a beginner’s mind, some ideas to explore. First, don’t assume that you know, the subject ask the child. Can you tell me about your painting?

You may find that children love to talk about their work, to notice the details, talk about the specifics, shading lines, colors, and forms that you see try responses. Like I see that you added purple to the sky. Tell me more about that. This way we can help learn and give voice to their thinking process behind the artwork.

Three, give feedback about effort when you see your child concentrating and adding details to a sketch or scribbling praise, what you notice [00:58:00] comments like I see you’re putting a lot of thought into those wavy lines. Praising effort leads to a growth mindset. Praising result can lead to a fixation on outcome.

Number four, celebrate and display work. Have your child find a place to display the piece. It could be an, a frame magnetic clips in the refrigerator or scanned into the computer and shared with family celebrations encouraged further work and lead to a sense of success. Number five, when you’re not sure what to say, give non-verbal feedback, a smile, a pat on the back, a wink or a high five can communicate to your child that you see and acknowledge them and their work.

And that’s all they’re really asking for. 

[00:58:45] Rachel True: That’s a beautiful thing. Well, why did you put this rainbow here? Or why did you give the horse a cloth? What made you think of that? You know, whatever it is instead of going, uh, a horse doesn’t have a right. 

[00:58:56] Joe Towne: Yeah, exactly. Okay. I want to jump to, to [00:59:00] me, you’ve been part of the Zeit guys in many ways, and you are a part of some iconic projects, and this is one you’ve spoken about a lot, but follow me for a minute.

Cause I, I I’m leading somewhere, which is this project. The craft literally fell into your lap, right? Your friend, places, the script into your lap and says you have to go out for this, but because of your representation at the time, you had to advocate for yourself to even be seen. You’ve written about it.

You’ve spoken about it. I love that you had this. And that you advocated for yourself. Um, will you walk us through what the experience was like and how you came to trust your intuition on that? 

[00:59:44] Rachel True: Uh, well, part of what people have to realize is they they’re non-traditional casting. And by that, I mean, every well I’ve got to stop calling everybody’s white.

That was the way it was back then 

[00:59:53] Joe Towne: in a movie

[00:59:57] Rachel True: Anglo. Right? So [01:00:00] today they’re more apt to read all different types. I’ll read it, Asian chick, black chick, and for all the roles, but then it was, and it was very Anglo, but the process, and this is, I write about, I write about it. It’s totally a true story. About nine months before what you’re talking about, my TV broke and I only had like four, four channels.

I didn’t have cable, but I’m American and I love some distraction. Um, so I was like, oh no, what am I going to do? I don’t know. But he wanted to find out what are we going to do? And this little boys, big boys came in and said, don’t fix it. You’re supposed to be doing something else. And I was like, but I loves TV Harpo.

And, and it was like, no, no, no. So I D I just listened to the voice and I really delved into my Terros studies. Uh, always throughout my life, but now I kept copious notebooks and just really dug in because I had also been slow for acting at that time. I’d come, I worked a bunch. And then all of a sudden, you know, a couple of months of slowness.

So I dug in with, and just threw myself into studies rather than getting depressed. Then the [01:01:00] craft script showed up and it was really clear that I was like, meant to be doing my work on that. And I remember, um, uh, you know, Lucy, Lou, and the same thing went down with her. She’d been studying martial arts hard core for two, three years before, uh, Charlie’s angels popped up.

So it’s the preparation, right? So the script lands in my lap and I’m like, ah, I want to play this part. I want to be this, which I want to do this. So I picked up, um, my agent wouldn’t submit me. They said I was too old. So my friend’s manager was like, I’ve been pursuing me, but I hadn’t wanted to pay an extra 10%.

And I’ve been busy. I was like, I don’t need a manager. But then I was like, okay, if you can get me an appointment for this I’ll work for you, I’ll work with you. So that’s how that went down. And that’s how that manager made a bunch of money 

[01:01:49] Joe Towne: and they got the 

[01:01:50] Rachel True: appointment. That’s all they did was make a call.

My agents were willing to do, which is again, another lesson 

[01:01:58] Joe Towne: and your agents. [01:02:00] It didn’t really fight too hard for your deal, right? Not at all. In terms of being seen in terms of being advocated for 

[01:02:09] Rachel True: no, honestly, Joe, I’ve never had my entire career, had a team and really stuck up for me or gave a shit like even when I was on my sitcom, my agent didn’t come once.

My agent from Gersh never came to set, no, I don’t need someone to hold my hand. But what I do need is an agent to come to set and speak to the people. They need to be setting up my next show. They come to set, they talked to the executives. I don’t, I don’t need a babysitter. I need you to do your job. So in a certain way, when I got sick and I had to take a break, which was the worst thing that ever happened to me, for sure it was awful.

And it was awful up until I kind of realized, like now I’m like, you know what? I think I needed that break to kind of solidify who I was, because if you’re always used to playing your emotions out through another person or a character and not really dealing with your own or, or dealing with your own via a character, I don’t [01:03:00] know that that’s the healthiest.

So in a certain way, having a break and being able to enforce me to use other sides of myself, like writing a book or pocket and just doing other things with my talent. And now it makes me able to sorry, but it makes me able to be a little more picky with acting now, too, because if something comes through and, uh, I’ve done that, I’ve done a lot of parts in my life.

So a lot of stuff doesn’t turn me on the way it used to. And at this point I haven’t been working as much as I used to, so I don’t need to go and do everything. I’m fine. I’ve already been away for a little bit, but that’s worked for me because I did a really great, like number one on the call sheet, lead on a shutter thing.

And I liked that, that I can be a little pickier. Yeah. That 

[01:03:43] Joe Towne: discretion sounds like it’s well earned 

[01:03:46] Rachel True: the way, you know, as an actor, it’s tricky. You want to be working all the time. Right. But at a certain point you realize like, I don’t want to go in for Jamaican fucking store clerk. Okay. I’ve done it. I’ve done that before.

I don’t, I don’t [01:04:00] care 

[01:04:00] Joe Towne: the evolution of what we’re interested in and curious about and willing to accept as artists, 

[01:04:06] Rachel True: but I’ve also played the Jamaican store clerk before essentially, you know, those throwaway roles that aren’t integral to the script, we’ve all done them. So I was like, you don’t feel the need to do that.

And I’m saying this because I have to believe in yourself. Cause I had a manager a few years ago and um, he told me, he was like, you need to get a composite headshot with like you as a bus driver. And I was like, no, I don’t, I don’t need to do that. And then he was the one who wanted me to go in on like the under fives.

And I was like, no, sir, you were negating my entire career right now. You are trying to, and he’s like, well, you haven’t worked in a couple of years. I said, I don’t give a shit. You are not erasing the fact that I have a lot of track record. And if your re-introduction for me is to do two lines, you have 

[01:04:49] Joe Towne: all right.

So you brought up a ratio and I brought it up in a previous episode this season, but it happened to you quite a bit through the arc of the craft. And it happened not only. [01:05:00] In the arc of the production, but the press tour, the Oscar party. And then most recently with some of the conventions and coming back.

And I’m wondering if you can speak a little bit about what you did to respond to those moments, because people may not know when they feel themselves being erased. What’s possible. They might not know what to do. 

[01:05:26] Rachel True: I was younger. I didn’t know what to do. And I bought into the hype, meaning by that, I mean, like even my co none of my costars, well, first of all, she’s the one who kind of understood.

I’m going to give her credit for that. She’s a fabulous person now, but I would say the other two didn’t get it. They were like, we’re more famous. That’s why we’re invited on the press tour. And were they, you know, ego by the way. But, um, and when I tried to explain was, well, why do you think there’s not any black stars back then?

Because we don’t build them because we’re not invited to the [01:06:00] press forum. We’re not invited to the MTV you are, but I’m not, you know, so I didn’t know how to respond that. And, and, you know, in the end I was just grateful that nev Campbell at the time, it was like, you should include Rachel. And so 20 years later when it came to the convention stuff, her and I had to have a difficult conversation about that, because what happened was, um, there were these Comic-Con signing conventions that actors go to and you get to meet your fans and connect with them.

And there’s also. Right. And so I’m already on the original craft, paid a pittance compared to the other costars, but now I’m not being invited to these things, which is, you know, um, hurting my revenues stream. Right. So anyway, it’s mostly, and I put up with it. I was like, okay, you don’t want me at this convention?

No problem. No problem. We’ll probably, but there was one that they had, so they had, um, nev and frugal were the big ones and I don’t want to come. And they were like, and I was like, whoa, okay. Because I’m actually not, um, [01:07:00] hypervigilant about this stuff. So when I speak up it’s because it is so fucking atrocious.

So what happened was I said, all right, no problem. But then they announced that Robin, Tony was going to be there. And I was like, wait, you have nev Robin. And Fairuza, you must, I said to my guy, tell him now, now you want me because it’ll be the first time we’re all together. Since 1996. We’ve never been together since then.

They came back with, we don’t want you. No, thank you. Um, we’re not interested. And I said, so let me get this clear. You’re passing on a craft for union. You’re passing on that. I just want to be a hundred percent clear that you could have the first craft for union, but you’re not having it. I okay. Just tell them I am going to go on Twitter though.

I gave them a heads up, you know, and they were like, no problem, no problem. We don’t care. So that’s when I went on to. I had no idea it was going to catch on, but I did kind of unload in that thread. And so what happened afterwards? I thought it was kind of interesting because in the thread I just talked about being excluded and then the convention people double down and they were like, tell her to take it [01:08:00] down.

And I was like, I’m a fucking middle-aged black woman. Fuck you all. That’s literally what I said, because that was my realization, Joe, that I’m a grown up now. I may not feel like one or act like one half the time, but I’m a grownup and no one can tell me I’m too young. And I don’t know what I’m talking about.

Like they told us our whole youth, so that’s what I said. And they kept threatening me to take it down. And I was like, no. And then I get a very interesting text from NAB. Who’s like, Hey honey, what’s going on? I’ve heard, you’re not, I heard there’s some problem in, you know, do you want me to speak up? But dah, dah, dah, dah.

I was like, well, what are your hurts? So she’s like, well, I just want you to know it’s not a craft for union, Rachel. I’m there for scream, Robins, Eric. She hasn’t done one before and fruits. It was supposed to be there last year, but she didn’t go. So that’s why she’s there this year. And I was like, I don’t need your help.

And thank you for explaining that to me. Um, because I’ve tried with my white friends over the years and I, I listen, I got a letter left for now, but she has always doubled down. There’s no racism in Canada. So, you [01:09:00] know, it’s just perception and what you’re up against. And I wouldn’t say the sticky thing is when it came down, I did get, you know, they, they buckled the pressure.

They added me to the convention that everybody made three. The money three times as much as they normally would. And there was a sticky wicket with Nirvana at one point, cause she was like, well, did you stick up for us? But I’m no longer having friendships with people who do not understand my struggle as a black person.

Even if I love them, that’s the truth. I cannot stomach her and Robin going well. It’s because we’re more famous. Like I’m tired of that. It’s, it’s not the truth. 

[01:09:39] Joe Towne: Thanks for sharing that, Rachel. And I know there’s a lot of nuance there and um, and people can go on and check out the Twitter thread cause it’s pretty epic.

And I love that your fans actually got to go and meet you and spend that time with you because it’s a long time coming. I want to talk a little bit more about some big success in breakthrough because so you had the craft. You then got to go do a [01:10:00] Sundance movie with Greg Iraqi. 

[01:10:02] Rachel True: I love Greg Rocky’s movies.

The only movie I wish I’d been nude in, he asked me to be nude. And I was like, no, but I wish I had, it would have been beautiful and you know, shoot them while they’re up. Is Jamie Lee. Curtis

is beautiful, right? I’m not embarrassed by it. I should’ve shot it when it was up here. My kids were up here, Joe. They were up above my head, 

[01:10:27] Joe Towne: uh, regret. So then you would half baked, another cult classic. You had already recurred on Cosby, nano two and O dream on you. Recur on drew Carey once and again. Half and half comes along.

This is the number one in the call sheet. You mentioned earlier. So the show was written for someone. Can you walk us through the experience? 

[01:10:49] Rachel True: Oh, well, first of all, actually, the other number when I was talking about is I just did a number one job for shutter, where I was the lead in a, in an episodic thing.[01:11:00] 

[01:11:00] Joe Towne: Uh, call sheet is a daily briefing for a show or movie. They let people know where they need to be when they need to be there, what to expect and what to prepare. Another way to think about it is that it’s a daily filming schedule created by the assistant director and their team based on the director’s shortlist, a call sheet contains important details like the location, the cast call times, which means what time to arrive for work.

And the shooting schedule a call sheet is sent out before the next scheduled shooting day. All of the cast and crew who are involved with this day of shooting receive a call sheet. It contains tons of valuable information that helps keep everyone organized and allows them to plan ahead. Cast members who need to be on set that day are listed in this section as well as their character names and call times extras.

And stand-ins people who stand in place of actors while technical adjustments are made to [01:12:00] lighting. And camera also have call times and are listed just below the main cast section. If you’re the first actor listed on the call sheet, you are the highest billed actor for the day’s shoot. You are number one on the call sheet.

It means that you are the leading role. And very often it means that it’s yours. It doesn’t always happen that we start out as the top listed artist on the project. Often we have to work our way up to it. So when it happens, it’s a pretty big deal. In April of 2021. Apple original films announced additions to its award-winning documentary slate to documentary features the first entitled number one on the call sheet from a claim storytellers, including academy award winner, Jamie Fox, Emmy nominee, Kevin Hart, prolific producer, Dettori Turner, and academy award winner.

Dan Cogan, the film will celebrate black achievement in the film industry and explore what it takes [01:13:00] for black actors to find success in Hollywood. The second number one in the call sheet, black leading women in Hollywood celebrates black achievement in the film industry and what it takes for black women artists to find success in Hollywood.

The film is executive produced by academy award nominee, Angela Bassett, and academy award winner, Halle Berry, and directed by show Lillian. This was pretty exciting. 

[01:13:24] Rachel True: If you’re not an actor, you don’t know what number one of the call sheet is kind of a goal. It just means you’re the lead person on the show.

Right? So half and half the script landed in my lap and I’ve been primarily, I’d done TV, but I was mostly a film person. And, uh, I certainly not done many sitcoms, but I like to think I have a sense of humor, but the situation is very similar. I, you know, my character on that show is a younger sister who is a prettier and gets a lot of attention.

I have that, my sister Noelle, that, you know, and I had a neighbor downstairs who had a crush on me, like the character Spencer did. So it all kind of floated one of the things [01:14:00] I did. And I thought this, I still find this interesting that I did this. Um, two things. I did talk about this in the book, two things, I’d been on a weed break for like nine months.

Right. And I decided to smoke some pot because I need to calm the fuck down. I know that’s crazy. You would think no stick with your weed break. But I also know that, um, I don’t take any other medicines and it was kind of like a Xanax for me. Right. So smoking joint, I’m like, you gotta work. And then I am looking at the script and I’m like, don’t work on it.

It’s comedy, you know, the basic gist here, you know, you know what you need to do. Don’t bang it into the wall because I have seen comedy, legends rehearsed stuff into the wall. So that by the time it’s ready, you know, the cameras, it’s not as funny because they’ve killed. So I kind of kept it loose. And normally I’m not saying I didn’t memorize it, Joe, but I kind of just kept it a little looser, if that makes any sense.

And 

[01:14:54] Joe Towne: as my friend would say, I’m 

[01:14:56] Rachel True: going to say the audition process real tough. If you’ve never been through the network [01:15:00] system, it’s awful. It’s designed to make you 

[01:15:02] Joe Towne: first audition with producers. You then go to the studio. Then you go to the network there you’re in this theater, right? Sometimes, 

[01:15:11] Rachel True: but also you first, you first do an audition for casting, usually just casting.

Then you get called back for the producers, directors that second or third, then you maybe do a work session. That’s three. Then you do a pre thing, which is four. And then the fifth reading is probably the network thing. 

[01:15:27] Joe Towne: Maybe in the waiting room, you’re looking at your competition and you’re signing a contract that tells you exactly how much you’re worth for your entire future on the project.

[01:15:36] Rachel True: And you can’t give your nerves in check. You’re like, oh my God, my life could change. But I tested for enough things that not gotten them. Think I tested for a couple of things that season and didn’t get them. So this time I didn’t even look, I just signed the contract. I didn’t even think about the money.

Uh, and any of that, I try and also try to keep blinders on and not look because it’s so easy to look at another actress and be like, oh my God, look, she’s so pretty. And look at her dress and [01:16:00] she’s so great. 

[01:16:03] Joe Towne: Yeah. 

[01:16:03] Rachel True: So I was like, don’t really look at anyone else and just go in and be confident with yourself.

It was, oh, it was written for Janine Garafalo. It was a pilot that sat on a shelf for a couple of years. It’s originally written for her, I guess she decided not to do it. It’s made by the people who did, uh, how I met your mother. I’m not sure. Oh, that might be the wrong show. They had a big I’m the worst.

Um, don’t worry. And literally I’m the worst when it comes to important people in the things they do. Um, so really cute tight pilots that have Bentley Bowzer. Who’ve done living single decided to snatch up and make for black family. And what I love that she said was, she goes, listen, we’re not changing a thing.

And I will never make you do a jiggy, you know, get jiggy to go to the mailbox, meaning I’m not going to make you go like most black sitcoms that we’re doing at the time. So she just kept the vernacular what it was. And I think that it was a perfect, also I worked with my [01:17:00] CoStar essence Atkins before we had done a MTV movie of the week, whatever, with the singer Monica.

So I knew, um, that I knew how us working together. Yeah. And I had to test twice and I’m not talking about studio the network. I had to go to that. It at work. Which was a lot because you convince yourself, you didn’t get it. You know, I obviously didn’t do good enough the first time for them to need me to come back.

So it was, it was a process. It was also great to do. I love making people laugh. I love being silly and more important. Just as importantly, I love us that schedule. Do you know you have every fourth week off? Why wasn’t I in Europe every fourth week? I don’t know, but every fourth week off, so you work three weeks and it is exhausting by the way, it doesn’t seem like it, but it is hard work, even though you’re done by 4:00 PM.

It is amazing schedule. I really loved a lot about that 

[01:17:53] Joe Towne: job and I, I loved you on it. I think I saw several of your tapings for that show. So I’ve clearly beaten your [01:18:00] reps on how many times they saw it. So you sort of casually talked about age earlier and you know, you described with your mom in a way as being that she was like a bit of a manic pixie dream girl archetype.

And when you were with her in Los Angeles at a young age, I’m curious, what did she teach you about age and what to say to others about 

[01:18:23] Rachel True: it? First of all, she wasn’t even, she’s alive. She’s not even an actress and she’s knocked, I think 10 or 15 or 20 years off for eight, 10 or 15 years off her age. So I don’t buy that.

Listen, I didn’t go out there until I was 16. So I don’t think I learned shame about age, but I did learn it was. Right because she made me tell everyone I was her sister. Right. So the other thing that was uncomfortable about that is like, as a kid, you want your mother, right? You you’re rude on around your mother.

You’re logging for your mother. And I’m like, all right, I’m your sister. Okay, fine. So I then of course, as an [01:19:00] actor, went on the lie about my age, hardcore is she did, which I found to be a drag to be totally honest, you know, I mean, I had to do it. I would have never, I mean, the producer of the craft literally said to me, a year later, I found out how old you were and I would have never cast you out.

I know, but, but you were perfect for it. So that’s a real thing that motherfucker sat there and said, I wouldn’t have cast you in this goddamn movie. That’s what you should take away from that story. Not the second part, which is, but you were perfect because you don’t get to the perfect, right. You’re not going to get the part.

So I had knocked 10 years off my ages before I MTB. And I also looked at, I looked, there was, I remember being in New York. Right. And being like 21 and reading for like these lawyers that like a 35 year old was going to book and I still look 14. So it didn’t make any sense. I felt really immature. Like I was like, I don’t even understand.

Uh, it’s a lot. Um, I don’t think it’s bad that I lied about my age. I wouldn’t have gotten 99% of the 

[01:19:59] Joe Towne: [01:20:00] jobs. Well, so what I’m hearing is, again, People are forced to do that. Right. They’re forced to mask. What’s true. And they 

[01:20:08] Rachel True: would still be lying about my age, Joe, if I could. And the reason I say that is because I am called in I’m.

I was just called in on a grandma and her grandchildren were 18. I literally said, have you met me? Have we met? I said, cause I haven’t even had a 15 year old yet on screen, which I think would be appropriate or college. Right. But a grandma with a seven, I noticed that like on the Disney channel, how are these women?

Rocket scientists, 28 with five kids. It’s impossible. But I’m the reason, again, I say I would still lie about it because that is what happens. They’re like, oh, she’s this age. She’s, I’m now lumped in because I’m over a certain age. I’m 70 according to them. 

[01:20:56] Joe Towne: But so, so you keep saying before I am DB. [01:21:00] And so for those people don’t know, I am DB is a subsidiary of Amazon.

I am DB is these the actors resource where people go to look up what people have done. And also sometimes has biological information listed under their 

[01:21:13] Rachel True: profile. Here’s the deal. And I’m talking about late nineties is when my early 2000 late nineties, when my age went up, I called them. I said, take it down.

You bastards. And they said, we’re no. And I’m upset with that because I know who put it up there. It was someone, a director I was dated and directors are notorious control. But it, wasn’t a very nice thing to do. I mean, just cause I didn’t want to sleep with you anymore. 

[01:21:37] Joe Towne: You know, it’s, it’s interesting. A few years ago I was developing a TV show and I was working with a writing, uh, two writers and one of them I’d known for a long time, since, since I moved out here, you know, to pursue acting.

And he’s always been like an older brother and a mentor and we always given each other a hard time about stuff. We’ve teased each other about going across town, rival [01:22:00] schools, USC and UCLA. We’ve given each other a hard time because he, he knows of my hippy-dippy ways am I can Neisha and all my stuff.

Right. And so did something that I didn’t know I was doing, which was, I was teasing him about how old he was as we were pitching, as we were practicing pitching. And, and as we were with some managers and he pulled me aside afterwards and he had to explain to me about ageism in Hollywood when it comes to writers and that he didn’t want me to tease him about that anymore.

And I had never considered it before he said something. I obviously never did it after, but it was really important for me because it wasn’t coming from whatever place I had just didn’t know. And when we don’t know better, we don’t necessarily do better. But what I want to encourage people who are listening is to think about.

When maybe we are inadvertently doing things and causing harm. And so you’ve had to pay quite a price. Now that person that you’re describing may have done it on purpose. [01:23:00] So the intention may have been different, but the result is the same. I could have cost him work. It’s 

[01:23:05] Rachel True: true. And like I said, that person, that man really did slow my roll career-wise and again, that’s unfortunate now I’ve had it come up in different circumstances.

Like there was one point where I got real skinny a few years ago, just for fun. I was so skinny. It was, it hurt to sit that’s how thin I got. Right. So yeah, no, it was, but, um, I was kinda feeling like, you know, like feeling attractive in that little way. Cause again, I’m gen X and my ideal body type is a 12 year old Thai boy.

Right? So, so anyway, I’m at, I’m at an event with some friends and a couple of guys, you know, everyone’s famous and a couple of guys are flirting with me. I leave the room, I come back and one of them leans Malcolm McDowell, leans over and goes, you know, while you were gone, your friend made sure to tell us your age, wasn’t that nice of her, [01:24:00] any Malcolm was letting me know.

He knew that she was feeling envious. Do you know what I’m saying? But I thought, yeah, That’s a friend of me, not so much a friend, right. Who’s going to out me when I know she’s not really that attractive you guys. She’s old. That’s kind of what that person. And so when these things happen, the first thing I do by the way is check-in to go, do I do that?

Do I do that? Cause stuff that annoys me, no, I really do. And the truth is not always do I do the thing, but sometimes it’s worth looking into, do you know what I mean? Because if it’s triggering, if it’s triggering me so much, maybe there’s a piece of me. And I find sometimes, cause I have grown and mature that it’s the old me.

It’s reminding me of who I used to be. And I have shame about that. You know, not being great all the time, but you just kind of have to learn. 

[01:24:58] Joe Towne: I want to talk about [01:25:00] intuition and I want to hear what this phrase means. Don’t take the first samosa 

[01:25:07] Rachel True: the book, because I’ve always been intuitive as I’m sure you are Joe.

And many, many people are freezable. Can I often argue about this, but I’m like, everyone’s psychic and she’s like, I’m like, everyone’s magical. She’s like, no, they’re not. It’s just different levels. You know, some people are in the super bowl and some people are in the Peewee league of intuition. I swim at whole foods or misses it might’ve even been Mrs.

Gooch’s back then. Remember Mrs. Glitches anyway. Yeah. So I’m looking at the prepared foods and this sort of whisper it’s like rustling leaves and almost sounds like, like a rustling sound and then I’ll just eat the first. So I took the first samosa and I got home and there’s a bug in it,

[01:25:59] Joe Towne: but you didn’t know what it [01:26:00] meant until later you made sense of it and I’ll bet you trusted that voice more later. It was 

[01:26:04] Rachel True: really clear. Could have been any clearer. Don’t take the first samosa. It’s not even cryptic. 

[01:26:11] Joe Towne: It’s true. It’s not coded, but it is interesting. Like it’s not something you hear every day.

And I don’t know if all of us have developed the relationship. Where we trust that voice. Now I know for me, if I listened to whispers of intuition, it’s because I’m getting quiet enough in my life to hear it. Inevitably, if I follow it, even if it doesn’t make logical sense, it helps. But then the second time it’s like a tap on my shoulder.

And the second time it might be a little bit of a bumpy journey. But by the third time I hear things, I am dangling over a cliff being held by my ankles and life is like you paying attention now. And I don’t like that part of the journey. I, I prefer to if 

[01:26:49] Rachel True: possible. Yeah, because my analogy would be like, okay, so to eat a bug, even if I had a protein, that’s not bad that the worst would have been eating a bug, which I did, [01:27:00] which is the first try.

The second time you ignore it’s usually the stakes are higher. And what you’re saying is by the third time, the universe is like, oh, well, listen, well wait. And I don’t like that either because I’ve been there many times. And I think I want to relate to people because I was talking to someone the other day, I was having a difficult time.

And I said, think I have to remember, because I felt really alone. They felt like they were the only person going through it. And that’s been a through line most of their life, which I’m going to say is something to look into. Cause if you, we all have that little streak of ego and narcissism to think you were the only one is actually very narcissistic.

Does that make sense? I’m not probably a nurse. I’m just saying. You’re not. And I was trying to explain that no matter who it is, it could be will Smith. You don’t know what is going on in their lives because it’s at, oh yes, they’re on a hill. You would like to be on and they’ve achieved all this stuff, but it’s a whole bucket of issues going on.

Everyone is struggling to, to just, [01:28:00] just to be their best self, to, to circumvent whatever problems are going on. So we are not alone in our struggle. And that’s where I’m big on connecting out with other people, you know, like I do, uh, I have a Patrion, which I don’t talk about or publicized at all because I like it.

It’s a small group of taro people, right. And it’s just our little group and I’ll pull some cards for them, but more it’s about empowering them with the cards. 

[01:28:27] Joe Towne: It’s one of the things about your book that I really responded to was, you know, as an alternative to therapy or relying on someone outside 

[01:28:37] Rachel True: therapy, by the way in tandem with therapy is perfect.

But go ahead. I just want to make that distinction because I’m very big on therapy. Yeah. 

[01:28:45] Joe Towne: So the idea is that we don’t have to only look to the outside that we can develop this relationship with ourselves. So I’ve got a couple of questions here regarding Tero. My mom. And [01:29:00] you had a special friendship? 

[01:29:01] Rachel True: Yes.

I love 

[01:29:02] Joe Towne: Joe’s mom, even though, you know, she was first friends with your father, you developed this friendship and I’m curious, cause I don’t know this. Did you ever speak to her about taro? 

[01:29:13] Rachel True: I was very young, not so much as an adult, by the way, you know, but I think when I was a kid kid like this, isn’t my first memory.

I’m Joe’s mom is her rolling in, in his van. We’re living in New York city on 10th street. And this van is like VW van opens up and this beautiful woman comes out in all these MedicAlert outfits. And she’s scaring all these puppets. Remember the puppets, 

[01:29:38] Joe Towne: the story goes, she made these, they were called puppets and they were these, these, um, spools where yarn would be on and she would paint a face onto an acorn and she made them into these puppets and she sold them at serendipity restaurant in New York city as part of the way to pay for.

Yeah, I mean amongst other places, but they carried them Andy [01:30:00] Warhols, 

[01:30:01] Rachel True: it was shaped like an ice cream cone, the bottom, and then the puppet was in there and it popped up. So I’m just saying that was my first impression. How am I not going to love this? You know, where their long flowing, beautiful hair and her beautiful blue eyes, she was just so effervescent and magnanimous and charismatic and all the things that, you know, Joe, because she was your mom, you know?

So 

[01:30:22] Joe Towne: she didn’t really necessarily talk to you about that maybe as a, as a younger person, but maybe not as an adult. 

[01:30:27] Rachel True: She might’ve had a deck when I feel like she was one of the people who showed me, did she take care of me? That was it. Not with someone else. So anyway, I’m not sure she might’ve even given me the deck.

I’m not sure, but that’s the kind of woman she was. I mean, she would come over and, um, you know, she didn’t eat meat. She didn’t, uh, she, she just had a Bohemian lifestyle and that was very appealing to me. She was a free spirit. And that seemed to be just to me, a beautiful way to live. 

[01:30:58] Joe Towne: Yeah. And part of my upbringing, [01:31:00] you know, she did a lot of different odd jobs to help us, you know, keep the lights on.

And she was the first person to introduce me to taro. She did readings out of our home and she was also a masterful astrologer for several decades. But, you know, 

[01:31:12] Rachel True: I knew her more as a strong than I did fire. I’m surprised we didn’t talk about Tara Moore

[01:31:20] Joe Towne: using cards for playful. Divination probably goes back to the 14th century, likely originating with non Luke game cards brought to Western Europe from Turkey. It was once believed that the Terros origin could be traced back to ancient Egypt, that the cards were perhaps a representation of the lost Egypt book of the dead.

There are plenty of other theories, including the suggestion that the taro evolved from decks of mystical number cards that existed in India and the far east in ancient times, and may have been brought to Europe by the Knights Templar during and after the crusades to the holy land. The truth is that no [01:32:00] one really knows where the taro deck came from.

Its true origin is shrouded in mystery. Evenly. Etymology of the word is unknown. While to get baleen suggests in Egypt, origin of the word, other historians, believe it to be a corruption of the word Torah, the Hebrew book of law and still others interpret it as an anagram of the Latin word rota, which means.

But these are guesses. The earliest known decks weren’t designed with mysticism in mind. They were actually meant for playing a game similar to modern day bridge. The first references to the cards came from Northern Italy during the Renaissance Italian noble families, such as the viscosity’s in early 15th century, Milan competed with each other to create games, to amuse their courtiers.

Using lavishly illustrated decks of cards. Nobles played a game of skill and chance called Tarocchi. The word may have originally meant foolishness [01:33:00] the symbolism in the early decks reflect Italian noble families, as well as Italian art and architecture. In the 15th century, the cards were called cartoon de tree Onfi or cards with triumphs, the triumphs referred to the 22 allegorical Trump cards, which today constitute the major Arcana.

The Trump cards were aligned with four sets of suit cards that featured cups Bhutan’s swords and coins, which are now known as the minor Arcana, the viscosity sports. The cards became the model for many subsequent decks from Italy, the game spread throughout Europe in France. It was renamed taro in the 16th century, but it wasn’t until the 18th century that the game gained esoteric.

In 1791, Jean-Baptiste Alliette a French, a cultist released the first taro deck designed specifically for purposes rather than as a parlor game [01:34:00] or entertainment. Another deck, one of the most famous was created by Arthur, Edward Waite, a British poet and mystic. He commissioned artists, Pamela Coleman to illustrate the cards.

She created symbols from Christianity, Freemasonry, astrology, and the Kabbalah modeling several of the figures on her friends in London’s feminists and suffered just movements at the turn of the 20th century. Now known as the writer wait Smith deck. It has been in print since 1909. It is the deck most often found in a cult bookstores.

The next major milestone in the evolution of tarot cards also came from England in 1944 and a cultist named Alistair Crowley published the book of thougth, a short essay on the taro of the Egyptians. The thougth deck was illustrated by lady Frieda Harris and incorporated a range of a cult and scientific symbols.[01:35:00] 

They’ll complete it in the early 1940s. It was not widely available until 1969. In many ways. Tarot cards tell the oldest story of humanity following the fool through a hero’s journey as described by Joseph. This also coincides with the primordial imagery of the psyche, which Carl Young called archetypes as interest in divination and the occult grew, it inspired more decks with more liberties taken.

The imagery evolved into increasingly personal artistic statements, both in content and style of execution. New decks, inspired by pop culture, nature and mythology are published every year. 

[01:35:42] Rachel True: You know, at that point, I certainly wasn’t thinking about writing a book, 

[01:35:46] Joe Towne: right? So I think when most people who have heard of taro think about decks, or at least maybe back in the day, the deck that they would think about was the rider deck.

Most people have heard of that, and there are a lot of decks out there, but they may [01:36:00] not know about the artist for the rider deck. What can you tell us about Pamela Coleman Smith 

[01:36:05] Rachel True: used to call it the writer wait, Smith DEC to add because she was, yeah, it’s the same tack, but we now call it rider. Wait, because rider might’ve been the person who wrote it up.

Wait, was the public. So writer and weight was what the deck was called completely left out the artists. So now we’re calling it, the writer wait, Smith deck, but Pamela Coleman Smith pixie was, um, we believe she was a mixed, uh, very Bohemian woman with probably a lifestyle, kind of like your moms, to be honest, you know, she was an artist, she was a set decorator.

She did all these things and she created the artwork for that deck. Now, uh, she’s from Jamaica. And when you think about it, Jamaica was a waste stop for slave ships. Right. And, um, the, the Jamaican accent, the dip song bowel sounds are almost identical. The Irish, because there were a lot of Irish overseers there.

So you know what I’m saying? And [01:37:00] so, so she was probably Irish and black, you know, she’s very light-skinned woman. So when I was working on the book, I have to say, there’s a beautiful book about her, by the way, go check it out. It’s 

[01:37:11] Joe Towne: thick. It’s like, put it in the show notes, Rachel, we’ll put it in the show notes for people.

Cause we’re going to also highlight a little bit about her. So let’s include that 

[01:37:19] Rachel True: forward by, uh, Mary Kay Greer, who is one of my favorite taro people. She’s a youngin taro practitioners. She’s got a great website with terrific insights. But, um, so when I was working on the book and it took me, I thought it would take me like four months, six months to write the book.

It took me a year and a half because two things, if you’re gonna write a self-help book, you gotta get your shit straight. Don’t you? I mean that though. I’m like, you can’t be a hypocrite and I’m not. Pretty decent. I tried to treat people the way they would like to be treated, or I would like to be treated right, but I still had to get some things correct.

So that I could truthfully write this book with all the truthful intentions that I met, but I felt really connected to her. So [01:38:00] connected at certain points, you know, and just doing a lot of readings with her deck. Um, so I really appreciate her as one of the four runners. I mean, she’s the creator of the modern tarot deck, which still works because I love that.

There’s a vast variety of decks out. I myself have many, many decks, including my own that I for sure read with, but I like a variety of decks. Now, the reason I love that deck though, is it is every youngian archetype. You could want Carl Young use them with his patients, uh, to unlock stuff. So the whole hero’s journey that Joseph Campbell, you know, hero’s journey is encapsulated in the major Arcana from the fool to the world.

And if you Google online hero’s journey taro, and then, uh, pee pee, Wee’s giant adventure. Someone has broken down. PeeWee’s great adventure with the hero’s journey and Tara, and you’ll see how beautifully it fits because script screenwriting, which is something I’m doing now, I find [01:39:00] that, um, if I can be clear with myself that I’m a better writer, I’m a better communicator, I’m a better everything.

And I feel like. Helps me with that to keep me focused and where my focus should be now in writing the book. I thought, again, I thought it would be really easy because they know Tara was so well, but the truth is there’s so many schools of thought and to satisfy them and just to write up one card took a lot longer than you would think to fit all the points I want in a hundred words or less, you know, it was a lot and it was a real learning curve and there were several rewrites.

And then I went through and today I’m Polish. Like with my age, you know, I paid someone to help me go through a F like edit, edit, edit, even though I had big publishers with an editor, they’re doing more grammar edits. I wanted to make sure that there was another eye on it. And I’m not talking about my friend’s eyes.

I’m talking about people who really know. And all of that I think gave me a cohesive book because it’s my first book. I [01:40:00] wrote it all by myself. It was really hard. 

[01:40:03] Joe Towne: It’s unbelievable. And so I see it on the shelf back there. We’re going to link in the show notes, but true heart intuitive taro. I think three components to it.

Um, and maybe some, some secret components. So it has a deck that people can use to actually start giving readings for first for themselves and maybe to others 

[01:40:23] Rachel True: book as applicable for any writer. Wait, Smith deck though. Cause mine is based on Pamela Coleman Smith system, just 

[01:40:30] Joe Towne: FYI. Yeah. And so, so inside the book itself, outside of the cards you described the deck, the meaning behind it, you walk us through the journey of the hero.

You walk us through the meaning of the cards in such a incredible way. And you also share stories from your own journey along the way. 

[01:40:49] Rachel True: Ain’t your memoir essays in there because there’s 22 major Arcana, zero through 21 banks, 22 major Arconic. 

[01:40:56] Joe Towne: And one thing you may not know, cause I don’t know if we communicated via [01:41:00] email back then, but when I first got, uh, an email address, my email address, I couldn’t get the fool at AOL because it was taken the fool X was my email address and it was from.

The taro, because my mom had a deck that wasn’t, it wasn’t the writer, wait Smith deck. It was a different deck. And I saw the fool and it looked like my profile. The artwork looked like my profile. And it talked about starting a journey with faith, even though you may not have all the wisdom yet. And I just was so moved by that, that I wanted to embody being the fool.

I was just getting out of college and probably felt of like that. 

[01:41:44] Rachel True: I still feel like that by the way, you know, like, I, I still, I feel like the only reason people say like, oh, she’s youthful is because I still have to be, you know, and part of that though is like, I just feel brand spanking new [01:42:00] time. Now I feel ancient other times.

No, it’s really true, but I, listen, I love the system of care here. I’m going to hold up. This is my world card, which actually the thing about working with a major publisher that I learned is it’s tricky, right? Because I did not get a lot of the things I wanted because I was not paying for it. And that’s how that works in business, which a lot, you know, certain people were like, I wish it’d been this.

And, and again, if I had self-published, I would have had maybe a thicker card stock and different things. Um, but. I’m in Barnes and noble and you don’t get that when you self publish. So, you know what I’m saying? It is a trade off. And part of what I did that when we were reviewing it, I was told by the publishers, I would have time to go over the cards.

We would go over them. That turned out to be not true. So I paid out of pocket, you know, contacted the, I was like, we can’t, we gotta fix a few things. So this is my world card, which I really love because part of what I wanted to do was to do with [01:43:00] pixie couldn’t do was to make the deck diverse. She was diverse, but she couldn’t create something diverse.

I have often been in that same position in my own life, right. I’m the one black person on the white thing. And nobody gives a shit. But anyway, so that’s part of the kinship, but I wanted to have this multicultural deck. It was super important to me to have, obviously I can’t fit in every culture. Right.

And wanted to be super careful not to appropriate either. Right. Because somebody had said to me, you don’t have any native Americans in there with a big head dress. And I said, well, the princess of dis page of dis is native. You can look at her and see she’s native, but I didn’t want to put a big war bonnet on her.

Cause she’s not fucking war. And it would be appropriation as well. I wanted to access what I’ve seen in our American upbringing and all of that. I’m really happy that said, even though I’m, you know, it was like, oh, you didn’t get some things I wanted. I’m really pleased with it. It’s.[01:44:00] 

[01:44:02] Joe Towne: It’s unreal to me. And I’m so excited for you because you, your purpose in what you created, showing yourself that you can be a writer is now leading you to write other screenplays. The second book that we’re going to look out for, um, I wonder if we can play for a minute here and just do some lightning round, which is really just like first thing that comes to mind.

When I say a couple things, the first thing I want to talk about is witchy stuff. What first comes to mind when you hear high vibe, a place. 

[01:44:33] Rachel True: Yay. Yay. Because I talk about high and low vibe. I don’t read reversals necessarily, right? This is upright. She’s high vibe, meaning the best sense of the word Greenville get really confused and terror about reversals.

It’s just the, it’s just the positive energy blocked or not flowing. If I can simplify it for people, because if this is achieving your goal, getting something fabulous, feeling a sense of accomplishment. If it were [01:45:00] low vibe, I didn’t get my goal. I don’t feel a sense of accomplishment. So high vibe to me is where I want to be.

[01:45:10] Joe Towne: I love that. I love that 

[01:45:13] Rachel True: high priestess. She’s someone I used to really not like, and I love her now a high priestess is a card in the deck and just very austere the deck I had in the eighties and nineties, she was heard buttoned up and she looked like a, a cruel white nun who was going to hit me. So I didn’t like that.

I was intimidated by the high priestess, but now that I’m grown, I know why I was the ticket. Wasn’t just that it was because she knows what I don’t, which is to keep her mouth shut. Sometimes she knows how to be quiet. She knows not to give away all his secrets. She knows I’m learning, I’m learning a lot.

I have a brain that stores facts, right. So I quite often will know the answer to something. And, um, I have learned the hard way. Sometimes people don’t want the right answer, Rachel. [01:46:00] 

[01:46:00] Joe Towne: Okay. Um, you brought it up earlier, but first thing that comes to mind when you hear the term gen X.

[01:46:08] Rachel True: Oh, I like because it is my heart. I mean, I feel so. I feel so, Jackie, I really am gen X in every sense of the word

[01:46:22] Joe Towne: generation X or gen X refers to the generation of Americans born between the mid 1960s and the early 1980s gen X-ers fall between baby boomers and millennials. There are approximately 65 million, 88 million of them sometimes called the latchkey generation or the MTV generation post boomers, baby busters, the new lost generation or the 13th generation, which refers to the 13th generation since American independence, sometimes being characterized as slackers, [01:47:00] cynical, and disaffected.

The ex refers to an unknown variable or a desire to not be defined in France. They may be called generation buff because their tendency to use the word buff. Which translated into English means whatever in Russia generation X-ers are referred to as the last Soviet children as the last children to come of age prior to the dissolution of the Soviet union in Ireland, the term generation X is used to describe Irish people that grew up during the troubles in the early 1950s Hungarian photographer, Robert CAPA first used generation X as a title for a photo essay about young men and women growing up immediately following world war two.

The term first appeared in print in December, 1952. When an issue of holiday magazine announcing the upcoming publication of CAPA’s photo essay from 1976 to 1981 English musician, Billy [01:48:00] idol use the moniker as the name for his punk rock band punk post-punk heavy metal grunge grind, core hip hop, all musical genres that exploded during the gen X period gen X-ers were largely responsible for the indie film movement of the 1990s in cinema directors, Kevin Smith, Sophia Coppola, John Singleton, spike Jones, Richard Linkletter have all been called generation X films.

Director John Hughes has been recognized as having created classic 1980s teen films with early gen X characters, which an entire generation took ownership of including the breakfast club, 16 candles, weird science and Ferris Bueller’s day off reality bites is the movie that has been both praised as the last word on extras and dam as Hollywood slickest effort yet to exploit them in midlife.

During the early [01:49:00] 21st century research described them as active, happy and achieving a work-life balance. The cohort has also been credited as entrepreneurial and productive in the workplace. More broadly, generation X are usually the parents of generation Z and sometimes millennials. So what can we learn from this generation as the great Genex philosopher, Ferris Bueller once said, life moves pretty fast.

If you don’t stop and look around every once in a while, you could miss it. 

[01:49:31] Rachel True: I remember the exact moment to when gen X really started I’m in New York city. I’m dating this guy, right is a couple of years before I moved here. And, uh, and I’m going to his building for the first time he’s having a party and I get the building and I don’t know which apartment it is.

And one apartment is playing Billy Joel, who I love. Cause I’m from fucking long island. Don’t talk shit about him. What apartment is playing and they’re all singing and we roll go down together. Like one of the most [01:50:00] depressing Billy Joel songs. Oh God, is that it? And then the other one he’s playing Nirvana because it’s their first song.

And no one had ever heard of them yet. And I was like, I’m going to knock on their Nirvana door and hope that’s my bread. And it was so that’s my J you know, and that was, that was such a gen X moment because it had been, um, you know, like a hair bands, you know, like heavy metal hair bands 

[01:50:31] Joe Towne: and 

[01:50:33] Rachel True: you know, all that.

Well, that’s older actually. Um, anyway, it was such a sign that times have changed and I really do feel solidly gen X in terms of growing up in the 

nineties. 

[01:50:42] Joe Towne: Okay. A couple of phrases that I’ve heard you say, oh, 

[01:50:49] Rachel True: don’t crack, but it does sag. Um, no, that’s right. That’s a line for my sake. I’m black. Don’t crack is an old expression, but like when people do get, listen, I’ve been [01:51:00] on dates area and the guys are siding well, uh, you really haven’t had anything done with that tone.

So that’s expression is black don’t crack, you know? And then I just started saying, listen, this is what I get for years. Thousands of years, hundreds of years of oppression. You’ll get all the money and everything and we get to look good. 

[01:51:25] Joe Towne: Perfect. Okay, great. Um, here’s another one also from your show, see what had happened 

[01:51:31] Rachel True: was, oh, but that’s valid because what had happened was, you know, you screwed up or something is wrong, but you’re like,

[01:51:48] Joe Towne: I loved Mona having to get out of that situation. I think it was actually from the taping that I saw live. And then of course, seated on reruns all the time. 

[01:51:57] Rachel True: Things are kind of done like a play sort of, [01:52:00] you get, you do the scene, live for the live audience, but you do it a couple times and 

[01:52:05] Joe Towne: now it’s come back.

Right? It’s on, it’s on Netflix for people to check out. I wish that, 

[01:52:08] Rachel True: you know what, I wish I made any money off that I would be more excited if I made a penny off it. I don’t, these are why we need our union to fight for things. Cause there’s no reason why I’m number one on the call sheet. And I think I made, um, $1,500 from it being on that’s it?

So someone, but by the way, I know, um, you know, I fought to get a raise in my last year because it was underpaid and we didn’t make residuals on it. And I fought for that for a reason, because I didn’t want to be in this position. I am in now having a body of work with no money, no passive income coming in from.

So it is super important for young actors to look over their contracts. Cause it’s a little hard, it’s hard to watch young. You how’s that 

[01:52:54] Joe Towne: fair fair. Maybe for those people that are listening and they want to go check it out, they can check it out on that. [01:53:00] 

[01:53:00] Rachel True: It’s really cute. It’s really funny. Part of the reason why I don’t necessarily go back and watch it.

Joe is, uh, you know, it was so hard. My dad was passed away that first season I was shooting. So I’ve been shooting for about six months and then he died at Christmas. So the whole first season of the show, I’m flying back and forth every weekend to go deal with my dying father. And so it reminds me of like, you know, it’s the best and the worst of times, which I wish that people would understand.

It’s very rare that you get the TV show and everything is perfect. No, of course that’s when your father dies because now you have the money to fly back and forth every weekend. Well, 

[01:53:36] Joe Towne: and that’s why you weren’t flying off to Paris, right? Because you were taking care of your dad and connecting with them.

[01:53:42] Rachel True: That’s probably true, actually. That’s true, Shea. 

[01:53:45] Joe Towne: All right. Um, you spent a lot of time. You have a podcast that you’ve done a hundred episodes of around the work and the vision of gene Roddenberry. So I want to ask you is why is star Trek superior to star wars? 

[01:53:59] Rachel True: Wow. [01:54:00] Now you’re trying to start a war.

They’re anxious. Well, 

[01:54:04] Joe Towne: it’s a star wars guy, but I I’m, I’m curious because you know, you, you obviously are celebrating a vision of gene Roddenberry, so. Silliness of that question 

[01:54:14] Rachel True: away. So, you know what I was gonna say? They’re not, they’re both equal, but I got to go with Liz than star Trek is because when we talk about Mr.

Roddenberry and the things, his vision for the future, and I, listen, I’m not saying, uh, other people, Lucas, isn’t fucking amazing to, you know, and he had a vision for the future, but very literally demanded that the show be diverse. The network didn’t want it to be any simple. Then we won’t do the show. So that is putting your money where your mouth is, man, and putting a world on the bridge.

We didn’t see that in the original I’m talking to the original star wars loves so much. The first one. Yes, we got Lando, you know, in the second and third, but I’m saying in the [01:55:00] original one 

[01:55:02] Joe Towne: and come on. Yeah, it was 

[01:55:03] Rachel True: a whole sure. It’s certainly homogenous is what I’ve learned. Um, it’s insane to think that the 

[01:55:10] Joe Towne: only famously called him out on Johnny Carson, right?

Like he’s like 

[01:55:18] Rachel True: go find that 

[01:55:20] Joe Towne: I’ll put the video into the show notes. 

[01:55:23] Rachel True: I love doing the podcast because they taught it just reminded me. Not to be annoyed, bitter. I don’t think I’m a better person, but it’s easy to be like, ah, white men, right. Or what, sorry, Joe, but that’s the truth, right? And he’s the least problematic white man I’ve ever known.

Um, but the truth is it’s not just this or that. It’s gene Roddenberry was a white man. Yes. He was Jewish, which I’m sure helped, but he was a white man who was like, no, we’re all in this. We are all, we cannot move forward until we, the whole conceit of star Trek is they fixed all the [01:56:00] motherfucking problems here.

Right? There’s no more poverty and homelessness and all these things that they have dealt with 

[01:56:07] Joe Towne: currently, what’s something that you can’t stop watching. 

[01:56:11] Rachel True: Oh, listen, it can be erudite or not. You know what I mean? I can go high per hour. Not, uh, I loved dark on Netflix. It’s a German show. It’s three seasons.

And it deals with, oh my God, it deals with so many things. Uh, I love the concepts of time travel and things like that. I always joke that I’m a time, you know, it changed time travelers. Dark on Netflix German show. Um, I’ve watched it twice now. I watched it in the original German, which is better and then subtitles if you’re lazy.

But, um, it touches on so many. I thought it was going to be a police procedural in the first 20 minutes. And it is the furthest thing from theft. It’s got siphoned, it’s got all this amazing stuff in it. So I really liked that. I really liked succession because, you know, sometimes I like [01:57:00] watching, like somebody said, there’s so many black there wouldn’t be in that world.

There just wouldn’t be, he is racist because that’s how those kinds of people are sort of not all of them, but a lot of them are. So I think it’s actually good. They have those things in there because that’s true. So I’m watching that and, and then, oh, well in the background while I’m writing, I’ll have the sound down and that’ll turn it up.

If I take a break, just so something, I can’t believe we’re going to utter this sentence. I can’t believe there’s only 12 seasons of ink master.

The last thing you think I would say, but I really do love Inkmaster for, so I don’t even have any tattoos and I just love watching it. And also now that I am a grown lady, I want to see stories about micro lady. That doesn’t paint me into an old lady picture, but just sort of where I am now. And you know what you think I’d be all over sex in the city, but I’ve [01:58:00] never watched that show, even if it’s not my cup of tea, right.

[01:58:03] Joe Towne: You’re celebrating that they’re showing women and their journey 

[01:58:06] Rachel True: because when people are harshing Sarah, Jessica Parker for being a human being with a natural face, it’s insane to me. But because the only reason we think it’s abnormal is we don’t see it. I had to clock myself on this show. I saw a TV show with a guy, with a woman whose wife was a pier.

And my thought was, oh, that’s so great. They have him with an older woman. And then I went, Rachel, she’s not an older woman. She’s his age. And you’re calling her an older woman because she, she’s not 27. He’s 55. And normally he’d be with a 27 year old. So this is the kind of systemic stuff. 

[01:58:43] Joe Towne: And that’s a really good thing to check ourselves on, you know, and we can pay attention to what our inner dialogue is saying is we’re watching things.

Okay. You know, the theme of this podcast is better. I want to challenge you with two questions here. The first thing is I’m curious, what is something [01:59:00] that you might do better than most people? 

[01:59:03] Rachel True: Oh, Kara. No, I don’t know. I mean, I honestly don’t know. Cause my first reaction, I probably am better at Tyro than most people haven’t studied, but my first reaction was nothing.

That’s what the little voice in my head said, oh. 

[01:59:20] Joe Towne: Totally. I know we can. And that’s why I use my right. Like I use my 

[01:59:25] Rachel True: that’s a hard one for me to answer because it’s, as much as I pump myself up and can be grandiose and say I’m a changeling time traveler and all this silly stuff. I also know we’re all in this thing together.

So there’s probably nothing I do better than anyone else. I 

[01:59:40] Joe Towne: just do it differently. That’s fair. That’s a good balance of, of truth and humility. And also what’s true, which is tarot and intuition. And, you know, it’s probably a lot of things you do really, really well, but it’s hard to acknowledge. 

[01:59:52] Rachel True: Right? Sure.

But part of it is I’m always working on trying to get better at things. And so I’m not really looking at the things I do [02:00:00] well. 

[02:00:00] Joe Towne: Right. Okay. And I think that’s true for most people, right. Is, is we look immediately at the things we haven’t done yet. And I think the reason I ask these two questions in the order that I do just to peel back the curtain a little bit for people is because I think it’s so much easier to ask this next question I’m going to ask, which is what is something that you’re working to get better at?

[02:00:20] Rachel True: Oh, they do dovetail together. Um, really my focus or what I’ve realized is super important to me because my upbringing and I think because of foster care, because of whatever my life circumstances are, just the way it’s unfolded, you know, interpersonal dynamics dating, not my strong point. Okay. So part of it’s that I was, I just remember, you know, as younger in New York, but I felt attractive there.

I, I moved to LA and I was invisible. So that’s part of it, but I know for my own work and struggles and studies, there are some things you can only learn in concert with another person. I can do all the practice I want, but when the real thing with real reactions [02:01:00] and it dumped her zip tails in a direction, I didn’t think, and I’m triggered, how can I respond the last, um, bigger, not bigger, but, uh, the last person I really cared about, we both did poorly.

We both did very poorly in trying to. And so that was a big wake up call for me in terms of communicating, I will also say it’s tricky being a gen X woman in Hollywood because I am taught, I’ve been taught my whole dating life. Like don’t, don’t tell them what’s really going on. Don’t joke. Keep it close to your vest, BP, the girl, uh, you know, and I, I really love this guy and I fell back on old things, you know, and kind of didn’t, didn’t leave with my, I can admit that.

I mean, he was an awful piece to all my concern. I just want to put that in because people loved trash there. It’s not my concern. My only concern is my poor mind where I let myself [02:02:00] down in that dynamic. 

[02:02:01] Joe Towne: Yeah. I’m really holding space for you on that. Cause I’ve heard you articulate it and claim it. And I know that that’s what you’re calling in and, and I also, maybe it’s a case of bad dress rehearsal, good performance.

Here’s hoping that that last. Showed us, perhaps how we don’t want to be. And then, you know, you can show up differently in the 

[02:02:19] Rachel True: next one. Yeah. I’m actually like, it took me two years to get to this point, but I’m actually really grateful, you know, because it really forced me to examine my own things and, and where I get triggered, especially in, in sexual dynamics and relationships, it’s all very tricky.

And I also know that what I need to do, and I’m saying this out loud, because I know there’s other people like me. Like I am not some, this guy had said to me, well, some people get to know each other by having sex. You know, it’s like almost like a handshake the way I would shake a hand and I am opposite.

I need to be turned on first, mentally. I need to be very turned on mentally. And then I started out [02:03:00] at us. So it’s things like that, that you have, if you’re like that or the other way, it doesn’t matter. But to be willing to say that to the person and if they reject you based on that, that is okay. 

[02:03:11] Joe Towne: I know that what’s next is to, for us to keep an ear out an eye out for some of the screenplays you’re writing for your next book, but in the immediate future, you know, you, you recently were in the horror and war anthology, so we can go check that out.

Right. 

[02:03:26] Rachel True: I’m getting confused. There’s a Hora. They should have given it a different name. There’s a, or documentary. And then there’s also a hard, more like, um, anthology series, kind of like a Twilight zone kind of thing. Six episodes. I believe mine is the fourth and it’s called fugue state it’s 

[02:03:41] Joe Towne: Malcolm Barrett 

[02:03:42] Rachel True: was such a great actor.

It was so fun to work with him and just find a play. You know, I really enjoyed that, that job actually, to Netta re-do is the writer of fugue state. She’s written a bunch of books, including the good house, super talented woman, very happy to be able to upset her words. And then I’m in a [02:04:00] film called Agnes, which is an indie, uh, film by, um, Molly Quinn is the lead auditor who produced as well with her Bo Elon gal, who is a terrific man about town producer in town.

And it’s, it’s fabulous. It’s uh, it’s about a convent of nuns, Carmelite, nuns, and things go pear shaped. How’s that? I’ll just leave you with that, dude. I love playing a nut, first of all, not just because I could eat whatever I wanted during lunch, but was just such a concern as an actor, but also I got it.

Like you put on, I’m such a independent person, which is something I’m going to have to work on to have a partnership. But, um, I got it. I was like, oh, you’re never alone. You’re you put on the thing that it’s not a costume, it’s a habit. And you were now Bork, speaking of star Trek, like you are a part of a whole, you are a nod, you lose your identity, you become, but there is kind of a piece in that.

Um, and also I love playing a character. I have more faith than. Hmm, I don’t have that. I don’t know, but she did. 

[02:04:59] Joe Towne: Yeah. [02:05:00] That’s beautiful. Well, we’ll look out for both of those. We’ll obviously put those in any ways, uh, you know, of your social links, um, into the show notes, but Rachel, I, I have to say a few things to you.

I have to say thank you because you know, you’ve always been an inspiration to me, Rachel and watching you blossom and flourish has brought me so much joy and hope. And I just want to thank you for being such an inspiring human and artist for bringing your honesty, you know, which is both rare and necessary and for your creativity in all of its forms, you know, and I really just, I want to, for your many years of friendship, thank you.

I love you. And I appreciate you. 

[02:05:44] Rachel True: So that’s such a sweet thing to say. I would like to think that watching me flourish, but also watching me flop around and fail to, you know what I mean? It’s both sides of it. We all learn from both those sides, you know? Um, but I do hope I’ve shown. You know, eventually you get back up right after [02:06:00] you’ve been, 

[02:06:01] Joe Towne: why do we fall down so we can get back up.

So I appreciate you shining the light on both the celebration of the success, but also the moments that led to them 

[02:06:11] Rachel True: because we all carry so much shame. And I have found that if you can release the shame of whenever failure of a relationship or failure of parenting or failure of whatever it is, it’s not saying to ignore it, learn the lesson, but if you can release the shame that will alleviate some disease that maybe would become disease, if we let it fester.

Right? 

[02:06:33] Joe Towne: So, and as individuals and maybe collectively let us release the shame and find the lesson 

[02:06:39] Rachel True: and the grounding thing around it, back to the very beginning of the podcast. Like that grounding thing I do is a perfect thing to do when you’re in the middle of a shame spiral or an anxiety spiral, just start grounding yourself saying, and I’ll say the same thing back to you.

I’m so appreciative of our long lifelong friendship. Like really I knew his mom before he was born. [02:07:00] That’s how long our families have been intertwined. 

[02:07:03] Joe Towne: Well, it’s such a joy to spend this time with you. Thank you so much for the generosity of your time. And, uh, I wish it could be in person soon. And, uh, I can give you a big hug.

[02:07:11] Rachel True: Thank you for considering me, you know, someone you’d want to have on your podcast.

[02:07:22] Joe Towne: It takes four to today to ride these waves as artists. And we need all of the tools in our arsenal. What I’m hearing from Rachel is a deep relationship with her own intuition. One that she developed over time. One that allowed her to believe in herself before others maybe did. And she has had success over and over again, despite the systems that she has had to battle educational systems, systems that want to use our age against us systems that have been in place since before the start of our country.

And what stands out to me is artistry emerging and [02:08:00] evolving whether that is as a lifelong learner and curious human or early days as an actress or time spent making movies time spent making TV or a book or clothes or. The idea that we can entertain ourselves. And that curiosity is at the heart of that.

Even in isolation, it’s not every day that we leave our mark on the zeitgeists. Rachel has done that over and over again, and I can’t wait to see what she creates next for now. How about a viewing party for Agnes? And then let’s meet up on the bird app and talk about it. All right. This episode concludes our first season 12 conversations, 12 amazing journeys.

I have loved learning from our guests and sharing that learning with you. My immense, thanks to Yogi Roth, Li Disalvo, Kevin Carroll, Hattie and Charlie Webb, Pamela Sheldon Johns, Noa Kageyama, Dr. Anthony Sparks, Liza Katzer, Malcolm Jamal Warner, Arnold Cardillo, Andrew Bernstein and Rachel True. And my incredible team, Fiona L and Amy, Chad and Jessica who made this season possible.

My hope for this season is that by listening to all 12. That a perspective may emerge like a constellation of stars in the sky and a deeper story will present itself. What does it take to be better? Not just in our craft, but as humans in relationships with each other and with ourselves, what stands out the most to you from this season?

What are you taking with you? Where are you curious to go next? Let us hear from you now. What does better mean to you? Please continue to review us and to rate us, please share these conversations with your friends and colleagues and loved ones and let us know where you’d like to see the better [02:10:00] conversations.

Go next. Thank you as always for being a part of this community. Until next time, be well .