[00:00:00] Joe Towne: Hey, this is Joe Towne. Welcome to The Better Podcast.

Today’s guest is Arnold Cardillo. He’s a three-time Grammy award-winning producer. He has received three ALA Odyssey awards, and he’s had several Audi awards, including for distinguished achievement in production. Arnie was a successful baseball player growing up and after studying philosophy and theology in college, he trained in the audio production space.

First as a sound editor and engineer leader at Listening Library. His success hasn’t been done alone. He and his wife, Debra run a children’s media publishing company called Live Oak Media, which they have run together for almost 25 years. 

Let’s jump right into the conversation with Arnie Cardillo on the genius of listening.

Arnie welcome to The Better Podcast. Should I call you Arnold? 

Arnie Cardillo: You can call me Arnie. Feel free. 

Joe Towne: Okay. Arnie. Great. Okay. So imagine for a moment that your whole life had a newspaper and people followed you around writing stories about your life, like a movie, what would the current headline of the newspaper of your life be saying?

And headline? Yeah, feeling old and tired. Uh, feeling old and tired. Okay. If I double click on this article, what stories it going to share with me? 

[00:01:35] Arnie Cardillo: No, it’s got to just say that, you know, as a result of COVID, uh, the world has changed, uh, at my age, you know, going through the last year and a half is kind of challenging.

So, uh, you know, hoping things change back to a level of normalcy, even though. That may 

[00:01:56] Joe Towne: never happen. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. I mean,[00:02:00] 

I think that, uh, it’s clearly been hard and sounds like right now, maybe you’re just feeling it. 

[00:02:09] Arnie Cardillo: Yeah. I mean, I think so. I think, you know, August and dog days in New York don’t help because don’t have a lot of energy, but you know, I’m just waiting for the fall. That’s when you know, you get energized. 

[00:02:24] Joe Towne: Great.

Bring it on. I’m excited. So something exciting that happens in the fall is baseball. Certainly the playoffs and, you know, leading towards the series. Um, is it fair to say that your first love. Was baseball, I think, as a kid. Yes. That’s 

[00:02:41] Arnie Cardillo: very true. I, I did. I played a lot of baseball ever since I can remember.

I was in, literally I played, I think it was called babe Ruth baseball back then when I was 12 or 13. And then I, uh, I went into high school and played high school and I even played a year or [00:03:00] two in college before I sort of moved on. But 

[00:03:03] Joe Towne: yeah. And so how did you come to fall in love with it? Did, did someone introduce you to it?

Well, my dad was 

[00:03:10] Arnie Cardillo: a big baseball fan, big Yankee fan. You know, I would hear stories about Joe DiMaggio and I grew up with Mickey mantle. So he was my eyes. And I got to say some great and some great years from like my first recollection of major league baseball was in 1956. When, uh, when, uh, Mickey mantle won the triple crown 

[00:03:34] Joe Towne: Mickey, Charles mantle nicknamed the commerce comment and the mic was an American professional baseball player.

According to his parents, Mickey mantle was named after future hall of fame. Catcher, Gordon, Mickey Cochran mantle played his entire major league baseball career with the New York Yankees as a center. Rightfielder and first baseman [00:04:00] mantle almost had his career cut short when he got kicked in the shin playing youth football, his leg got infected with osteomyelitis, which lasted his whole lifetime.

This may have been partially responsible for taking much of the speed he had early in his career. Little known fact. Number one, when he was younger mantle set, an unusual record, he was able to run from home plate to first base in 3.1 seconds, which is the fastest time for any player in history in the late 1940s mantle was so unimposing physically than when his dad took him to St.

Louis for a workout. The major league St. Louis Browns sent him home without even letting him on the. But that wasn’t the end of his story. Mantle is considered to be the greatest switch hitter of all time mantle practice batting left-handed against his father. When his father pitched to him [00:05:00] right-handed and he practiced batting right-handed against his grandfather.

Charles mantle. When his grandfather pitched to him left-handed he was named to 20 all-star games, won a gold glove for his play in centerfield in 1962, and was part of seven Yankees teams that won the world series. He hit a record. 18 home runs in his 12 appearances in the fall classic. He led the league in walks five times, little known facts.

Number two mantle also hit some of the longest home runs in major league history. In 1960, he hit a ball left-handed that cleared the right field roof at tiger stadium in Detroit, and based on where it was. It was estimated to have traveled 643 feet mantle. Two times hit balls off the third deck facade at Yankee stadium, nearly becoming the only player to hit a fair ball out of the stadium.

During a game [00:06:00] through his lifetime, he battled addiction. He also suffered from panic attacks most, especially later in life, little known fact, number three, mantles, four sons, along with the children of teammates, Gil McDonald and Yogi Berra were sometimes babysat by Martha Helen. Kustra who the world knows today as Martha Stewart, Mickey Mantle’s number seven was retired by the New York Yankees in 1969.

Mantle was elected to the hall of fame in 1974. And 

[00:06:33] Arnie Cardillo: I know my D I had an older friend who was very knowledgeable about baseball and the older he was a year or two older than me, but, and I was about seven at the time. Uh, he, my dad, you know, he would come over and visit and my dad would talked baseball and, you know, Yankee fan.

And he would tell me stories about, as a kid, them sneaking into the stadium, I had a love for baseball and my dad was a great baseball player. He [00:07:00] got drafted by the New York giants when New York, when the, the New York at the polo grounds. And, uh, you know, so he sort of introduced me to it. I heard stories about him playing and my uncle was playing.

And then, so, you know, and then as kids, we were in a neighborhood where we all gathered together and played every sport that was, you know, Current at the time we played football together, we played baseball. You name it. We would, we would sneak into the club that our fathers belonged to in the summertime and play basketball cause they had a basketball.

So yeah, so it was very athletic as a kid, but uh, yeah, baseball was my, my first lap 

[00:07:46] Joe Towne: number seven. How come he was your favorite? You were saying, uh, was it Mickey mantle? Yeah. Why? 

[00:07:54] Arnie Cardillo: It’s just, you know, Mickey mantle had a charisma. I mean, I remember going to the [00:08:00] stadium and sitting and you know, I wasn’t the only kid, but looking at him in awe, he was a physical specimen.

You’d watch him hit the ball and it was just pure power is a great all around ball player. And you know, when I, when I was growing up and watching him, like in the early sixties, Yankees were winning, uh, pennants and world series. I wasn’t the only kid who I had Mickey mantle as an idol. Sure, 

[00:08:28] Joe Towne: sure. Well, I just wondered what your personal connection was to yeah.

It might take was, you know, 

[00:08:36] Arnie Cardillo: you would look at him in awe. He was just, he was, he had everything going. It’s like you, you know, you would look at Marilyn Monroe or different, different peop people in, in, uh, celebrities or sports figures. And there wasn’t, I think there was an aura, you know, that attracted, 

[00:08:52] Joe Towne: you played first base, right?

Primarily, and being a lefty that helps. And plus I didn’t have a great arm. [00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Arnie Cardillo: I was a better hitter. I wasn’t good fielder, but I was a better hitter, uh, a good hitter. And first base seemed to be the right place 

[00:09:08] Joe Towne: for me. I don’t know if you’ve made this connection yet, but what would you say baseball taught you about being an artist and a producer?

What did it teach you about work ethic? Is there anything that comes to mind when you hear about baseball, you hear about, 

[00:09:26] Arnie Cardillo: you know, that every batter, you know, batting 300 is great and you know, you’re a good hitter. If you can bet 300 or more, a little less. And, uh, that means seven out 

[00:09:38] Joe Towne: of 10 times when you come to the plate, 

[00:09:43] Arnie Cardillo: You know, you don’t get a hit 

[00:09:47] Joe Towne: baseball invites us to see that failure is a part of life.

Todd Frazier also nicknamed the Todd father said one of the biggest lessons I learned was to accept failure because in baseball, you [00:10:00] actually fail more than you succeed. It’s the only sport where failure is the norm. That’s why baseball is the hardest sport in the world. In baseball. One of the most commonly used statistics is a batting average.

The batting average is calculated based on the number of successful at bats ending in hits, divided by the total number of at bats. Everybody got that. So what is viewed as a good batting average is 300 or for every tenant that’s a player. Has they get three hits. In other words, it is seen as good for you to fail seven out of 10 times.

In fact, even a few players in the baseball hall of fame have batting average is below 300. This may not seem like a big deal, but really isn’t the longterm. You can fail seven out of every 10 at bats and still be one of the best of all time. What would it mean in our own lives? If we allowed for sought out and accepted failure [00:11:00] more often than we succeeded, it certainly would impact how we think about failure.

It would also impact what our definitions of success are. We’re talking about a base hit a successful at bat over time. These add up to something much bigger. You know, I find 

[00:11:17] Arnie Cardillo: myself attracted to sports like that. Like I like to fly fish for trout. I like to play golf. There for most people, uh, you have a low success rate, so you learn disappointment.

I think you learned disappointment and you learn how to cope with it. And, and, and yet there’s, you know, you have a love for that thing or that activity or that sport that keeps drawing you back or, or, you know, when you do something successful, it’s all the more rewarding because it’s hard to achieve. So I think what it teaches you is teaches you to deal with this appointment, but it also teaches [00:12:00] you something that there’s something that’s maybe indescribable that, that brings you back to it.

And then it becomes, it just becomes a practice for you, becomes something that you try to 

[00:12:15] Joe Towne: get better at. So it sounds to me like it makes you appreciate those moments of success and it helps you process disappointment, which. As an artist where we so often have these moments of disappointment. Can we go on a little bit deeper?

What do you think helps process that disappointment and bounce back? Is it just having a short memory or is it something else? I think first of all, it’s 

[00:12:42] Arnie Cardillo: love, but secondly, it’s 

[00:12:43] Joe Towne: perspective, 

[00:12:45] Arnie Cardillo: you know, you can be in the moment with a disappointment and that’s okay. I think it’s, it’s okay to be in that mode.

But you also have to pull yourself back and then gain perspective. When you see that you still like this thing, you still want to do it. [00:13:00] It’s a, you know, it’s something that you want to, you know, strive to be better at. And you put the disappointment in context. I think that’s important. I think you have to step back from your, through those emotional moments.

[00:13:19] Joe Towne: We experienced disappointment on a day-to-day basis, right? When someone cancels on us when we lose all our work, because our computer crashes, when we don’t hear back on a job, we really want mostly we get over mild disappointments in about five minutes. Although some are innocuous and other severe, they all make an impact.

A lot has to do with what our expectations are. If the outcome exceeds expectation, we might just be elated, exhilarated, joyful, happy. If the outcome is worse than expected, we tee up disappointment. Why do we have expectations? They [00:14:00] feel good when we’re excited by our expectations, our brain releases a chemical called serotonin, which is a feel good neurotransmitter.

It interacts with adrenaline and the sympathetic nervous system, which makes our heart race, our pulse Quicken and our eyes sparkle, dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin combined to produce feelings of excitement within the brain’s limbic system. When the neurotransmitter dopamine, a chemical reaches the frontal cortex, we experience pleasure the strength of the dopamine secretion increases in anticipation of a reward.

But withhold the reward after the anticipation and the strength of the secretion decreases. This may be the physiology behind the emotion we call disappointment. John Paul Sartre said that every dreamer is doomed to live a great number of disappointments. Maybe you’ve wondered why a letdown [00:15:00] hurts so much.

We know that our body releases endorphins to relieve pain as much as possible when we have a physical injury, but disappointment is an emotion that stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system and the pain in your brain after a disappointment is real neuroscientists discovered something called a neuronal jolt, which happens before every disappointment.

There’s a sudden decrease in serotonin, dopamine and endorphins. So all of these molecules responsible for your wellbeing momentarily. Leave your brain. Uh, chemical releases triggered which results in melancholy, inertia or feelings of hopelessness. Disappointment hurts emotionally and physically. We may notice some tiredness, heaviness, numbness, it manifests in other people in the form of headaches or allergies.

If there is a prolonged roller coaster of emotions, excitement, stress followed by [00:16:00] melancholia inertia, serious stress induced disease may occur. These may include heart disease, digestive disorders and depressed immune system. So what can we. One way to reduce the impact of these experiences is to direct them toward your cerebral cortex.

We do this by focusing on them from a more objective point of view, not always easy to do, but get to that neutral mind and see if that helps shift things. Psychologists have some suggestions that can help us with our disappointment. We can revise our previously set expectations. After the fact, you can rewrite your story around what was anticipated, and as time goes by this new memory will replace the painful one.

We can increase our disappointment tolerance. There’s no reason that people low in disappointment tolerance have to remain that way. Sometimes we may need to accept [00:17:00] that disappointment happens. We can avoid rushing to action selling your stock after a loss burning your Jersey. After your favorite player gets traded, you may still come to the conclusion to take action, but rushing into it may not be serving you, give it a beat.

We can remind ourselves of what we can control and what we can’t. If there is something that can be done, do it, but staying stuck on things that are outside of our control may require us to be more honest and accept things. At least for this moment, tomorrow is another day. We can interrupt our own patterns, especially.

If you’re chronically disappointed, like Charlie brown expecting Lucy to hold the football in place or the Mets to have a winning season. If doing so is affecting our daily happiness. We may need to find something elsewhere in our lives to focus on. We can use humor. Even self-deprecating humor can help us cope with [00:18:00] disappointment and impact making faulty pessimism based decisions that stem from chronic disappointment.

Laughter isn’t just great medicine that can shift the course of our future. Overall, this is less about general advice and more about finding what works for you. But here is one thought to consider that there is medicine inside the disease as Henry David Thoreau, once said, if we will be quiet and ready enough, we shall find compensation in every disappointment.

So Arnie, uh, this name Arnie are not. It’s a family name? Yes, I was at the third arm Aldo, although the third can, can you share us? What are your grandparents names? 

[00:18:45] Arnie Cardillo: Uh, Mary was my grandmother’s name. Uh, my grandfather, my mother’s father’s name was Antonio. Uh, my father’s mother’s name was [00:19:00] Carmella and of course my father’s father was Arnaldo 

[00:19:03] Joe Towne: dad also.

And our knowledge though, you called him poppy. What do you think? No. Oh, you didn’t? Well, I didn’t 

[00:19:11] Arnie Cardillo: call him poppy. Poppy. Poppy is a name that you use for, um, grandparents, you know, it was a tradition, nanny and poppy. We know at least in our family, uh, all the grandparents were known as nanny 

[00:19:28] Joe Towne: and poppy, nanny and poppy.

I see. Okay. So your grandparents would have been nanny and poppy. He became nanny and poppy to your, your kids. Okay. So when you think about him, you think about your dad. What, what stands out to you? What do you think of when you think of him? I think it was a, 

[00:19:47] Arnie Cardillo: uh, and my father was built like a, you know, he was short, he was 5, 7, 5, 8, and he grew up with a nickname shorty as a kid.

And, uh, he was, he was actually a second basement shortstop [00:20:00] too, but he, uh, he was really a strong physical specimen. And I used to go with him and my uncles to play golf when they played golf things to walk around and watch them. And they were really like, I mean, they used to hit the ball. I couldn’t even see it.

They were great athletes and it just reminded me of a strong, hardworking man who, um, you know, worked hard to provide for his family. He didn’t have a. Uh, higher education finished high school. He told you he was drafted by the New York giants, but then working world war two. And he went off to war and no, when he came back and he also received a letter, so he must’ve been a pretty good ballplayer, but, uh, I think he know after that he wanted to just married my mom and yeah.

Focus on work and earning a living and, uh, 

[00:20:57] Joe Towne: focused on work. [00:21:00] And you, you worked together from a young age, right? I mean, it wasn’t like the family business, but you, you did get to work together. Yeah. My father worked for 

[00:21:08] Arnie Cardillo: a, uh, liquor distribution company. He was the warehouse manager and then he became a salesman.

So he would hire me and my friends, you know, we were in high school college or whatever in the summers and we would go and work at the. Distribution company look, a distribution company and warehouse, and so 

[00:21:35] Joe Towne: on lifting all the bottles, 

[00:21:38] Arnie Cardillo: going into the big trailers that were delivering the liquor from like Seagram’s or whatever, with a thousand cases, 50, 60 pound cases.

And we would go in there and love them, throw each other in a chain gang. So it was a good, it was a good exercise 

[00:21:56] Joe Towne: watching him be this. He was a [00:22:00] manager and watching him in some of the relationships that he cultivated. What did you learn about how to conduct yourself in the world from your dad? I’m wondering that, that 

[00:22:10] Arnie Cardillo: he was very, but he was very serious about his work and good at his work.

And he developed good relationships with the people who worked under him in that. Um, they respected him and they, uh, Um, yeah, he was very fair and he was their friends as well. So I think he cultivated that relationship with his superiors too. And so he, so it was about relationships and, you know, treating people right.

And yet 

[00:22:44] Joe Towne: to relationships keeping them on task. So Maria and Carmella, which one of the, two of them wanted you to be a priest?

[00:22:54] Arnie Cardillo: Well, I think my, my mother’s [00:23:00] mother’s, uh, father or my grandmother’s father had gone to the seminary, I think so. I don’t know if I know my father’s mother didn’t care whether I was a priest or not, but we, we live with my grandmother, uh, my parents. And so. I don’t remember, but I did develop an interest in theology or chaplain.

And so I even ended up studying theology and philosophy at 

[00:23:29] Joe Towne: school. After NYU, you went to drew, you write for philosophy and theory. I went to drew 

[00:23:36] Arnie Cardillo: studied. I studied a word that I think is an oxymoron, which was philosophical theology. I never, I never thought we actually walked together, 

[00:23:46] Joe Towne: but yeah, I understand what those two words mean to you.

Philosophy and theater. 

[00:23:52] Arnie Cardillo: Well say allergy is simply the study of God. You know, the nature of God, uh, used to be, he could study it, [00:24:00] stay ended up studying a lot of different religions, obviously, because God is placing central role, obviously. And philosophy is more of a study of the, to me it’s more of a direct study of truth and understanding.

Truth of the world. And I think that they could become very divergent exercises, especially you’re an atheist, they’re kind of separate disciplines. What’s never that way, obviously throughout history because of the great thinkers, uh, were theologians as well, you know, throughout history until maybe the 19th century when there was a divergence and you got more, if there was more sort of, you know, you came across existentialism and different ideas of things that, um, disciplines that, uh, saw the world differently.[00:25:00] 

Illogical contexts. Yeah. 

[00:25:02] Joe Towne: So what do you think you were seeking when you were studying these things? These oxymoronic principles. 

[00:25:11] Arnie Cardillo: Of course I was seeking truth and understanding and knowledge and. Yeah, no thy self and get to know who I was. And of course, you know, the second portion of that phrase is know, thyself, know that you’re a man and not a God.

So, you know, I just, I was curious about 

[00:25:31] Joe Towne: knowledge. You think it gave you a wider understanding and appreciation for other people’s perspectives or did it help influence your personal beliefs? Because one feels like you zoom out and you get away from yourself and you maybe cultivate more willingness to have and try on different perspectives, perhaps even cultivating empathy for others and compassion.

And the others feels like an inquiry, which it sounds like you were seeking truth and your own inner [00:26:00] awareness and knowing yourself. Yeah, 

[00:26:03] Arnie Cardillo: it’s actually an interplay of the two because, um, when you learn about different. Religions and philosophies, and you tend to be more, uh, pluralistic and that you, you learn their origins and habit that you accept them.

You don’t become so rigid or exclusivist certain religions become, you know, where they say, if you’re not, if you’re not a believer in our religion, if you’re an outcast or you will find the kingdom of God, you know? So I think, um, so I think I, it helped me develop a more understanding perspective about people in the world, but, uh, by the same token, I think it also helped me to, uh, you know, I think existentialism was, I was very interested in that substantial ism and people like nature and character garden.

What that helped me do is be more inner focused because, you know, [00:27:00] especially CA guard is very talked a lot about subject. Subjectivity. And Delphino your individuation or becoming your individual who you are and meet you also talked about become.

[00:27:18] Joe Towne: Soren Kierkegaard was a Danish theologian, philosopher, poet, social critic, and religious author, who is widely considered to be the first existentialist philosopher. It’s nearly impossible for me to comprehend a majority of his impact on modern philosophy. But I wanted to share a bit about what I’ve learned about him.

He grew up in Copenhagen in the 1830s and 1840s, and loved to walk the crooked streets where carriages rarely went. He believed in shouting up everyone. He came into contact with on the street, no matter who they were. One quote of his, I appreciate is this what I really need is to get clear about what I [00:28:00] must do, not what I must know, except in so far as knowledge must precede, everything.

What matters is to find a purpose, to find a truth, which is truth for me to find the idea for which I am willing to live and die. Two of his most influential ideas are subjectivity and the notion popularly referred to as leap of faith regarding subjectivity. He shares. It does not depend then merely upon what one sees, but what one sees depends upon how one sees all observation is not just a receiving a discovering, but also a bringing forth.

So next is leap of faith. Like many before him Kierkegaard set out to find answers about the world and life itself to satisfy the inherent curiosity that rests inside every human being. We all want to know what is the [00:29:00] meaning of life? What role do we play? Kierkegaard tried to answer the most typical existential questions yet when he failed to do so.

And when logic wasn’t enough, he recurred to religion and faith. What’s wild is the Danish equivalent to the English phrase. Leap of faith does not appear in the original Danish, nor is the English phrase found in current English translation. Of Kierkegaard’s works that said Keuka guard does mention the concepts of faith and leap together.

Many times in his works Kierkegaard’s guards concept of leap points to when a person is faced with a choice that cannot be justified rationally and therefore has to leap into it. It is also a leap of faith because faith, not reason is the only thing that can enable it for Kierkegaard. There is no reason in faith and that is what makes it.

The leap of faith is his conception of how an individual [00:30:00] would believe in God or how a person would act in love. Faith is not a decision based on evidence. Faith involves making that commitment. Anyway, Kierkegaard thought that to have faith is at the same time to have doubt and the paradox between the two was necessary.

And inextricably linked Kierkegaard tried to answer the unanswerable to find meaning in a meaningless world and decided to throw away the most valuable tools that any philosopher has, reason and logic. He argued that when facing an impossible situation, we shouldn’t go for the most reasonable choice, but for that, which is more appealing to the emotions, Kierkegaard would tell us to take a leap of faith and go for our dreams and that which is impulsive, that which we want with all our hearts, even if our minds are telling us something.

The concept of the leap of faith is embodied within his work fear and trembling, where he [00:31:00] talks about Abraham’s dilemma regarding his son, Isaac, additionally, Kierkegaard believed that everyone would die, but also everyone had an immortal self or soul that would go on forever. He thought boredom and anxiety can be alleviated in various ways, but the only way to escape despair is to have total faith in God.

Another gem is this worldly worry, always seeks to lead a human being into the small minded unrest of comparisons away from the lofty calmness of simple thoughts. The playwright August Strindberg from Sweden was influenced by the Danish individualistic philosopher Kierkegaard while a student at Epsilon universal.

He mentioned him in his book, growth of a soul and zones of the spirit. Kierkegaard has also had a considerable influence on 20th century. Literature figures deeply influenced by his work include w H Auden Herman Hessa, Franz Kafka, [00:32:00] Rainer, Maria Rilke, and JD Salinger amongst many others. I think it’s, 

[00:32:06] Arnie Cardillo: it’s more, it was more of a focus finding out who that person is, 

[00:32:11] Joe Towne: so that dance, that interplay between the two, I could see how they could work together in your own quest and vision for truth.

Arnie. Do you feel like you have a word or a phrase that guides your life? You know, there 

[00:32:26] Arnie Cardillo: was a point in my life where I don’t know if I have a word of phrase, but I remember a point in my life where I was, I think it was, you know, I never aggrieved about my mother’s, uh, you know, um, premature. There was a point in my life and I was very depressed and looking for purpose and sure.

It was tied into to something I couldn’t understand is why she died so young. And I think, um, for some reason I stumbled upon, uh, you know, [00:33:00] Norman Vincent Peale’s power of positive thinking. I remember reading that and realized that no, I, I realized that you could, um, you had the ability to change your attitude, change your beliefs, change how you think, and you could, you know, Walk on the sunny side.

Sometimes you don’t, you didn’t have to, you could change your, your emotions.

[00:33:30] Joe Towne: I am not a licensed psychologist and I’m not here to prescribe anything. So take this next part with a grain of salt, but generally speaking, depression has more to do with the past than the future. And generally speaking, anxiety has more to do with the future. So perhaps there’s a relationship between unresolved and unprocessed feelings about things that impact our experiences of depression.

And there are likely physical conditions that impact us as [00:34:00] well. The earliest written accounts of what is now known as depression appeared in the second millennium BCE in Mississippi. In these writings, depression was discussed as a spiritual, rather than a physical condition, like other mental illnesses.

It was believed to be caused by demonic possession as such. It was dealt with by priests rather than physicians, Greek and Roman doctors used therapeutic methods, such as gymnastics, massage, diet music, bads, and a medication containing poppy extract and donkeys milk to treat their patients Hippocrates. A Greek physician suggested that depression initially called melancholia was caused by four imbalanced body fluids called humors yellow bile, black bile, phlegm, and blood, a Roman philosopher and statesman named Cicero in contrast believed that melancholia had psychological causes such as rage, fear and grief.

A Persian [00:35:00] doctor named raises saw mental illness as a rising from the brain. He recommended such treatments as bad. And a very early form of behavior therapy, which involved positive rewards for appropriate behavior during the Renaissance, which began in 14th century, Italy and spread throughout Europe during the 16th and 17th centuries, which hunts and executions of the mentally ill were still quite common.

However, some doctors were revisiting the idea of mental illness, having a natural, rather than a supernatural cause during the latter part of the age of enlightenment doctors began to suggest the idea that aggression was at the root of the condition treatments, such as exercise, diets, music and drugs were now advocated and doctors suggested that it was important to talk about your problems with your friends or a doctor, other doctors of the time spoke of depression as resulting from internal conflicts between what you want and what you know is right.

Freud believed [00:36:00] that many cases of depression were due to biological factors. He also argued that some cases of depression could be linked to loss or rejection by a parent. Martin Seligman suggested that learned helplessness could play a role in the development of depression. According to this theory, people often give up on trying to change their situation because they feel that nothing they do will make a difference.

This lack of control leaves people feeling helpless and hopeless psychotherapy and medications that target molecules called neuro-transmitters are generally the preferred treatments these days. Although electroconvulsive therapy may be utilized in certain instances, other newer therapies, including transcranial magnetic stimulation and vagus nerve stimulation have also been developed in recent years in an attempt to help those who have failed to respond to therapy and medication.

From time magazine May 17th, 2016. Now there’s a new albeit controversial approach being [00:37:00] considered by scientists. A team led by Robin Carhart Harris, a research fellow at the center for Neuropsychopharmacology at Imperial college of London reports in the encouraging results of a small group of people treated with siliciden.

After one week, all reported improvement in their depression. And two thirds of the people were depression free by three months, about 58% showed improvement. Five were in remission while five relapsed. What these data show is that this is doable and seems to be well tolerated says Carhartt terrace. The efficacy of the treatment is impressive.

[00:37:40] Arnie Cardillo: I also remember reading a book by SART titled emotions and he deals with the fact that emotions can be. Sometimes. And I don’t know if that’s, you know, I don’t know if I believe that it’s true. You know, some people get so immersed in their emotionality or their emotional states, whether [00:38:00] it’s positive or negative.

And they don’t see that almost is like, there’s no choice, you know, seem to have the choice. So they can’t, you know, break the break the, the, uh, for the habit or the patterns. So I, I think that book just helped me to, uh, know that there are choices that you can make as a person. And you don’t want to always be successful obviously, but those that’s, which I think people grapple with this.

I mean, you think about people who are scarred, but, you know, by their early lives and the traumas and things. Uh, they go to therapy, whatever the case may be, but you know, the goal is to figure out a way out of it. So that book was very influential on. 

[00:38:51] Joe Towne: Yeah, it sounds like it. Okay. So continuing on your journey, you have now been in [00:39:00] audio books for over 40 years, 24 years ago, you started live Oak media with your wife, a children’s media publishing company together you’ve, you’ve created more than 300 titles and you’ve received a lot of notoriety for this work, almost every award possible.

I would love to get a little bit into process and figure out how that has shaped what you do when you’re working with an actor. I’m curious, are you more listening for something specific in their performance or is it a feeling or what? 

[00:39:37] Arnie Cardillo: Or trying to make sure that they’re conveying. Of the story and of the texts and the, and expressing the emotional content, you know, at the same time.

And I think what I look for is, you know, there S you know, many of them are very professional. They’re professional narrators, they’re professional actors, and they’ve developed techniques [00:40:00] by which they can do that. You know, you hear it in their pacing, you know, they can slow, slow their pacing down to make a point.

They can speed it up for intensity. They could change the volume of the, you know, there are just so many ways that they’ve learned how to express the book content and, and, you know, sort of, um, make their performance, uh, effective. 

[00:40:27] Joe Towne: You have meaning on one hand, it’s important if you’re listening for meaning, that must mean that part of the job of the performer is to understand the context and meaning of what they’re saying.

When you talk about, um, emotion, it feels like there’s a fine line here between the reader experiencing the emotion or the listener experiencing the emotion or the performer experiencing the emotion. So can you talk a little bit about that balance? 

[00:40:55] Arnie Cardillo: You mean how the, how the performer sort of [00:41:00] translates that to the, to 

[00:41:01] Joe Towne: the listener?

Sometimes for example, I’ll notice a performer is really feeling the emotion that they’re trying to convey. Sometimes it feels a little intense and maybe a little too much. When I see that it doesn’t make me feel as much. Whereas sometimes somebody struggling with that balance, that push pole actually impacts me more.

So, 

[00:41:25] Arnie Cardillo: yeah, I think, I think that’s very important. I think, you know, there are times when I’m sitting listening or directing or, you know, at a session where people say to you, Hey. Back off, you know, you’re, you’re too intense. You’re here too. It almost gives me the sense that they’re overacting or they’re overplaying their part.

And you’re right. You know, I remember seeing, uh, alpha Chino, uh, doing merchant of Venice on Broadway. And I guess, you know, the subtlety of his [00:42:00] delivery was very effective, man. You know, you think about the Chino spitting and, and, you know, going over the top.

Yeah. But you know, he’s a very genius at his craft. And I think, I, I think, um, if it’s too intense, then the listener is not really feeling it there they’re observing 

[00:42:28] Joe Towne: performance. Then it puts them into observation mode. That’s great. Okay. So tell me about this phrase. You talk about creating a pause so that the recording can be absorbed.

And you talked earlier about how performers, one of the skillsets that you appreciate is their willingness to slow things down to make a point or speed things up for intensity. So when you talk about cultivating a pause and creating a pause, so the recording can be absorbed. What are you referring to?

And 

[00:42:59] Arnie Cardillo: you’re delivering, [00:43:00] it’s important that when you’re delivering a concept or a thought is something that’s deeper than an expression, you know, when you’re intellectualizing, you know, what’s your, what’s your a reading? I think, especially I work in the realm of young kids anywhere from ages four to 12, So I want to make sure they get a chance to understand what’s being said rather than having a glossed over and moving onto the next thing.

So I think, you know, pausing to me, you know, when I first started in the industry, I did a lot of sound editing and back then it was, um, I used a razor blade and I work with, you know, quarter inch tape happened, whatever a lot of what I did and learned to do was how to create ad time or subtract time. I think that’s one of the things that, that, um, became, uh, you know, one of my skills and that when I, when I listened after I do a recording [00:44:00] session, it couldn’t, let’s say with a longer book, maybe a three or four hour book or five hour book or whatever, I will then sit down.

Uh, sometimes I’m not always present for the recording. I’ll, I’ll hire a director because, you know, I just, I don’t feel I need to be there, but then I will sit down. With the book. And I like to work with the book and a pen and started marking it up. And so I’m always making notations, I create my own sort of code where, whether zero, meaning open the space where the letter C L meaning closes the space, this word, I’ll underline a word because, you know, emphasizing certain words in a sentence or phrases helps to convey that meaning or being able to refer back to a word that you’re using again and make the comparison to help the listener, understand the context.

And so, uh, yeah, so I can mark up a book to know him. 

[00:44:59] Joe Towne: Yeah. [00:45:00] I love that. So your part of your plan and process is creating that roadmap for yourself. And then that informs how you listen to the recording itself for that part of. And how 

[00:45:12] Arnie Cardillo: the listener can, you know, get them appreciated the most, or get to appreciate the 

[00:45:18] Joe Towne: listening experience in this.

What does it mean to you creating a world escape? Does that phrase mean soundscape 

[00:45:27] Arnie Cardillo: or soundscape? I see it as soundscape. Yeah, because we do a lot of, you know, we do a lot of, uh, picture books, you know, young books and I say pictures, they’re not the photos. They’re illustration illustrated books for kids.

The illustrations in a picture book are, you know, a picture is worth a thousand words. So those pictures, like young kids, they learn about things in the world. They see an object. Uh, you say that’s a wall, a ball, [00:46:00] and they make the associations three dimensional. And so when I do a picture book, I’m trying to create that sort of experience.

Virtually or, you know, in the context of the book. So I see the illustrations as the world that the kid is immersed in just like they run Merced in the world when they’re learning how to speak and when they’re two, three, or whatever, or six months or before they’re born, I don’t know. But, you know, so I try to create that soundscape that puts them in that world that supports the text in the book that supports the pictures, which are the pictures are another form of texts.

They help the child understand what’s going on. And so when I create a soundscape, it’s the immerse, the kid in that environment allow them to, um, to experience it more than just hearing the words. And, you know, it’s been proven that kids, you know, it’s [00:47:00] more effective. So for a kid to learn a word when they hear it and see it at the same time, Because it makes a double impression.

[00:47:11] Joe Towne: I set out to find more information about the science of learning to read. At first, I came across the different styles of learning. Perhaps you’ve heard of them or even identified which kind you are, visual auditory, kinesthetic, or vac learning styles. This model of learning was designed by Walter Berk, Barba and later developed by Neil Fleming.

The vac learning model divides people into three categories of learner one visual learners. They absorb information by sight to auditory learners. They absorb information by sound and three kinesthetic learners. They absorb information by moving people predominantly learn using one style, whether visual, auditory or kinesthetic though, every learner often incorporates elements of the other two styles they’re likely [00:48:00] to achieve maximum.

From learning by focusing on their primary style. Okay. Back to the study that Arnie referenced, there was a recent study conducted by researchers, Colin, McLeod, and Noah Foran at the university of Waterloo and published in the journal memory, which found that reading words aloud made them easier to remember compared to reading them silently.

The study used four different experimental conditions to isolate exactly which elements were responsible for improved memory retention. The subject group of 95 students were asked to either read silently, read aloud, listening to recordings of other people, reading or listen to a recording of themselves.

Reading memory retention was strongest when reading aloud directly suggesting that the impact came not just from hearing the words, but also speaking them. This is because verbally pronouncing a word creates a memorable experience, a phenomenon, the researchers call the production. [00:49:00] The active cognitive process of encoding the word into speech also helps encode it into long-term memory.

Additionally, when it comes to words, heard through recordings, students were better able to remember those recorded in their own voice than those pronounced by someone else. According to the authors, this suggests that hearing one’s own voice provides a distinct stimulus of self recognition, which also helps make the content memorable.

So what else makes learning more memorable? A mnemonic device or memory device is any learning technique that aids information retention or retrieval remembering in the human memory for better? Understood. The word mnemonic is derived from the ancient Greek word, mnemonic hosts, meaning of memory or relating to memory and is related to nemeses the name of the goddess in memory in Greek mythology.

Her name means remembrance. What helps your memory, your retention, your [00:50:00] recall. I’d love to know. 

[00:50:03] Arnie Cardillo: So if you know, so I also see a soundscape creating sounds that support what’s going on with the text, the same room with the pictures saying, and, uh, I see it as an enforcement exercise for young kids or for me, for beginning readers, it allows them to have that multiple impression.

You know, the siren weld, they, uh, they see the texts, they hear the words and they hear a siren. There are people have different opinions about that. Some people believe that it should only be the text. You know, there should be no supporting materials for sounded. But I don’t, you know, I liked creating soundscape.

[00:50:41] Joe Towne: Yeah. It sounds like an added layer to help bring the world to life so that they can immerse themselves into it and experience that. Yeah. It brings a 

[00:50:50] Arnie Cardillo: story to life. Yeah. The world of the book. Yeah. 

[00:50:54] Joe Towne: Right. Arnie. I’m curious to know, clearly this level of success [00:51:00] means you have to push past good enough, like good enough is not, is a phrase that I’ve heard.

Why do you think people stop at good enough? Is it a generational thing? Is it a personality thing? There’s a lot of economical 

[00:51:17] Arnie Cardillo: things that go into that. I mean, I I’m in my industry anyway. There are the large book publishers who have their own audio divisions. They’re cranking out a lot of titles a month and I think it’s becomes like a factory.

I like guitars. I play guitars. I like collecting them and I liken it to a big, you know, factory that produces thousands of guitars, literally thousands, and the little, the little craftsmen who builds it by hand or builds it with a small group of people and produces, you know, maybe 50 a year, if they’re lucky, but it’s a different, you know, it’s a [00:52:00] different approach, a different kind of craft.

And I think the big, you know, the quantity over quality allows for maybe a level of mediocrity or level of accepting, you know, what there is, you know, or what they can do within a given amount of time. As a small company, I, I felt early on that I had to take a different approach. I think I felt I had to be the craftsman, had to create high quality material to distinguish myself to brand my company.

Because I couldn’t compete on that high volume level with the bigger corporate. 

[00:52:39] Joe Towne: And maybe you didn’t, maybe it sounds like you didn’t want to, and maybe you prefer this idea of going deeper. 

[00:52:45] Arnie Cardillo: It’s like, no, you you’re treated like a craft, like something that you have to practice that, you know, and I often think about it could be personality driven too, because I also see myself as somewhat of a [00:53:00] perfectionist.

I think my personality drives me to want to do the best that I can and to create something that has, 

[00:53:09] Joe Towne: okay. So it’s a driving motivating force that perhaps somebody else who comes up against resistance will say, okay, it’s getting too hard. It’s taking too long. That’s that’s enough now, but it sounds like there’s some deeper drive in you to want to go past.

I’m curious, can you say a little bit more about, do you, how satisfied are you during the process of improving your creation? Does it feel irritating, like, uh, making an oil, like a oyster, making a Pearl or, you 

[00:53:42] Arnie Cardillo: know, it’s a process with all the things that process it is AB you know, it’s a struggle sometimes you get, I don’t know.

I feel that I’ve over the years of doing this, I’ve become somewhat intuitive as to what works, what doesn’t. I mean, I [00:54:00] listen and I can hear what works and what doesn’t. So it’s part of a skill set that I think you develop or that, you know, or maybe there’s an innate propensity or talent or predisposition to, to, um, to know for yourself.

What’s right. And what’s not. And so that’s what I. Yeah, that’s what I find happens, you know? No, that doesn’t sound right. Uh, well, that’s, you know, you have to change the mix a little to make it work. Um, you know, with audio books, I talk about soundscape. I always think of it like a stage and, uh, you know, the voiceover artists tends to be center stage and all the other materials around them or in this case sound effects or sound materials.

Music has to be the supporting cast. So I think so. Um, [00:55:00] yeah, so I think, um, it’s, um, somewhat intuitive, but you know, there’s a, there is a drive that makes me want to get it to the next level. And you know, again, I’m not under the, I don’t put my as a small company. I don’t put myself under the timeline, uh, late, you know, I have to get out 50 titles a month.

I believe that I, you know, when I’m happy with what I’ve done and there are different degrees of happiness because you know, you, can’t not, everything’s a masterpiece. Obviously you get one masterpiece in your life. You’re happy. I like the ability to, uh, see how far I can go. And I don’t put a timeline on that 

[00:55:41] Joe Towne: process.

I’ve also heard you say that you don’t listen to other audio books and what they’re trying to do. You don’t want to be influenced. You’d prefer to focus on what we do. Tell me more about your vision for the kind of audio book you want to make and why it’s sometimes important to keep your [00:56:00] vision clear.

I know 

[00:56:01] Arnie Cardillo: that a lot of my quote competitors and I don’t think about them, but I know a lot of them have listened to, you know, we do at live Oak. And then when I say I do little. It is really a collaboration. I worked with a lot of skilled people, whether it’s the actor or the musicians compose the music or the, my engineer is, you know, I feel with my engineer, I can have a vision, but in R in my medium, I can’t necessarily execute it without having a very skilled technician to get onto pro tools or whatever the, you know, the software is and make it happen.

So, yeah, I’m sitting there with a vision or, you know, with a direction or a, you know, a need to change, change something in the production and all the different elements in it, but I’m just one of the pieces. 

[00:56:56] Joe Towne: And here you that having good collaborators helps bring the [00:57:00] vision to life. What do you think there’s something there?

So your other companies may listen to what you do, and they may make decisions about trying to be more like you or going in a different direction, but it seems like you’re really purposeful about not listening to others and staying clear to your own vision. What does that about? And 

[00:57:19] Arnie Cardillo: is it foolhardy? I don’t know.

I just don’t. I want to be innovative. Maybe the existential it’s subjective person coming. I don’t know, but I, I, I feel that I don’t need someone else to create a vision for me. I mean, I’ve already, you know, I have my own vision and I want to remain true to it. And so I, you know, I don’t, I don’t, I guess it works because I don’t find, you know, by just staying true to my own, uh, approach and my own methods and, and true to my sort of intuitively.

Nature or [00:58:00] talent or whatever you want to call it, I’ve had good results. 

[00:58:04] Joe Towne: Okay. So perfection sometimes drives you. I want to be really purposeful about that word. I’m wondering what’s the downside or the dark side of perfectionism. Does it get to a point where it has a law of diminishing returns to, how does that impact the collaborators or with, I mean, you have 

[00:58:23] Arnie Cardillo: to be, I mean, when you’re working with people and you want to drive them, you know, sometimes really helps to know who they are if they want to be driven or if they have their own drive.

And you know what I find a lot of people do when I work with them is they’re happy to have these are artists of these people that consider artists. No, I mean, they compose music, they, uh, perform, uh, you know, they read, you know, they’re reading they’re actors. Um, some of them are act. They, [00:59:00] uh, or, you know, working with, you know, Adler’s or, you know, people, all the people involved in the production, my experience is that they want that, you know, they’re, they, it is their craft.

It’s what they do. And they want to do the best that they can. I I’m just so impressed by the fact that when you say it’s not good enough, they say, okay, let’s make it better. You know? And there’s frustration. There’s friction. You know, sometimes I know with my editor, I, you know, it just there’s this friction.

And it’s funny because, you know, the one said to me, you know, we do this for our head. It’s not about, you know, whatever there is in the external world that drives people. It’s we do it because. Yeah. And, and, you know, I find it a funny thing that happens [01:00:00] between the two of us as well, have arguments and stuff.

And I can focus on one thing and say, no, not, not, not, not right yet. Let’s try this way. Let’s do this. And he can get so frustrated, but then I find him doing the same thing about something that I say, what are you worried about? It sounds so great.

But you have that dynamic going on 

[01:00:24] Joe Towne: that dance. Yeah. I’m really hearing that. It seems to have to do with, um, a diligence and almost a thoroughness, but the word perfection really bumps me in the sense that I feel like the dark side for me is this almost burnout that can come. From an unrelenting quest for flawlessness.

And I think that it’s a little bit different to me than the intrinsic drive for better or excellent. Yeah, 

[01:00:55] Arnie Cardillo: I think, I think, um, yes, I think you’re right. There’s a destructive nature to [01:01:00] perfectionism and, uh, I think you are, I think I’ve learned anyway that sometimes you need to back off, you have to know when it’s time to back off and when you’re getting what you want and when it’s no, I, I would say good enough.

Good enough is not a bad word sometimes because it’s, um, as long as your overall vision or your overall desires to create the breath best high, highest quality thing, you can then, you know, sometimes you realize your limitations, you could realize the limitations of the people you’re working with. You know, we do a lot of, we do.

I like doing a lot of authentic recordings in that they’re not professionally. There Phil, you know, fill a role that there’s this sense of authenticity. Like I do, I do books, I done a couple of books with, uh, a woman wrote a Cherokee woman, wrote a book about Cherokee community out in Oklahoma. [01:02:00] It’s a picture book and, uh, I wanted authenticity.

So I went, you know, so I spoke with her and we went to the community. I mean, I didn’t go there physically, but virtually. And we pick people out in the community. Some of them were speakers in front of their people. Some of them were young people in school. You know, I find those experiences very rewarding is that it’s more of a, you know, how can I get the best performance out of this person?

And yet know that I’m dealing with a person who’s depicted in the book, the actual. You know, person, whether it’s, you know, the Cherokee, you know, a native American, a Cherokee, uh, whatever it might be. I do this, you know, we just did a book about, uh, about Hawaii called Ohana means family. The author lives on Maui.

So actually went, uh, I [01:03:00] worked with people from Maui on the island. It was about making Palais and the farm that was depicted. Uh, there’s a letter in the back of the book by the farmer who makes ploy very small operation. And so I actually, I worked with a musician, Hawaiian musician to create the music.

Uh, we also went, uh, went to this guy’s actual farm and recorded the ambience and the river that’s running through. Uh, Carlo fields. And so, yeah, I mean, there’s something that I am driven to do that kind of stuff. And I’m not so concerned about perfectionism or the, you know, the, uh, as far as the performances are concerned.

So I like working in that context. I did another book out, uh, about the, the, uh, Korean chef Roy Choi. And the book was called Roy train, the sea and the street food remix. And the, [01:04:00] the art was done by a graffiti artist in LA. And book is about the streets of, uh, you know, how Roy, uh, grew up on the streets of LA and this, this, the illustrator that graffiti artist who did the illustrations grew up on the streets of LA.

And I just wanted to see if, you know, I spoke to him and, you know, I knew Roy tri wouldn’t be involved, but I knew this, but it wasn’t in this voice. And so I started working with this, uh, graffiti artist and I just had, he had never done a book before, but he had a good, he had a good personality and he sort of brought the illustrations of book.

You know, he was part of them. He, you know, he had done the illustrations, he was on the streets that, you know, I was working with him and he was just saying, you know, I want to feel the streets of LA LA. I want you to feel the vibe. And the text was such that it had sort of a rhythm, a [01:05:00] rap rhythm. So we played with that too then.

Yeah. Anyway, I, you know, it’s not always about being with the best, you know, the best narrator or the most, uh, proficient performer or whatever. Sometimes it’s about making things often. 

[01:05:15] Joe Towne: Yeah. Really hearing that authenticity mattering to you and also your inner creative, you know, your curiosity and drive to learn as you’re going through this process.

Talk to me about the struggles of practicing one way and performing, feeling like a totally different experience. Like when I practice, it feels like this, but then when I go to perform something else happens. Cause I remember you sharing with me a bit about that struggle. And I think a lot of artists may relate.

We do have a 

[01:05:45] Arnie Cardillo: disconnect in other. What I find is I can sit around and play and even try to perform a song, uh, with just me or sometimes with, you know, you know, my wife or other people that I know. And it’s not a [01:06:00] big, it’s not, you know, it’s good. I enjoy doing it. But then, then I turned on the press, the record button and maybe, and maybe that’s where my perfectionism is destructive because, you know, maybe I can’t, I’m so concerned about it being right, but I don’t miss it, know that I do, you know, that I either singing or playing or whatever that I think I’m not able to get past that and not, and not able to, uh, do that when I did my recoup, my albums, what I did was I recorded the, you know, my guitar track and then I overdubbed my voice track.

And then I went to work with, you know, the producer at the studio. There’s a music producer at the studio. I used to work with who he was, the spin doctors, uh, produce. And so I asked him if he would help me produce [01:07:00] an album. 

[01:07:03] Joe Towne: The spin doctors are an American rock band from New York city. The best known for their early 1990s hits two of which made the billboard hot 100, two princes, which made it to number seven and little miss can’t be wrong, which made it to number 17 before they were the doctors of spin.

The group looked a little different and had a different name, originally known as trucking company. The band included Canadian guitarist, Eric Shenkman harmonica, John popper and leader vocalists Chris Barron, who was Popper’s high school friend from Princeton, New Jersey popper left this side gig in favor of a little band known as blues traveler, full time.

The band added a drummer, Aaron Combs, and a basis Mark White and the classic lineup was set by the spring of 1989. The band signed with epic records, Sony music. They also perform double bill gigs opening for blues traveler, and the two bands would jam [01:08:00] together. Their debut studio album pocket full of kryptonite was released in August of 1991 in 1992, everything changed.

They toured with the horde festival alongside jam bands like widespread panic, blues traveler. They’re videos played on MTV. They appeared on Saturday night live and their subsequent hits. What time is it? Correct? Answer four 30 Jimmy Olsen’s blues. And how could you love him? When you know, you could love me, led to the album going triple platinum in 1993, it sold over 5 million copies in the U S and another 5 million overseas, including wearing a hole in my Sony Discman from overuse, rolling stone, put them on their cover.

In 1993, they made an appearance on Sesame street. They played at Woodstock 94 Glastonbury festival. The spin doctors contributed the theme song to seasons two and three of the television show, spin [01:09:00] city. A lot more happened with them over the years, but I’ll always remember the joy, their Grammy nominated songs brought me and rocking out to them at the Jones beach theater in the summer of 93.

[01:09:11] Arnie Cardillo: So I brought my tracks in, I think the first album. I recorded the tracks with him at his studio. Second one I did at home and I’ve recorded the tracks and brought them to him. But he then hired as a producer. He was the producer. He had hired different musicians to play along with my tracks. And so know it was more, it’s a studio type of thing, but can I perform in PR in front of people?

I’ve never, never 

[01:09:39] Joe Towne: tried it. It sounds like that. It sounds like there’s a, something that happens where they becomes an over indexing. You said on rightness or not missing a note. And then when that happens, perhaps there’s a little constriction, whereas perhaps in just playing that there’s more of a freedom and your focus is [01:10:00] elsewhere.

Yes. 

[01:10:01] Arnie Cardillo: It’s a self-consciousness that doesn’t bode well for my being able to do it. And I end up ending up with a. Stopping and starting a lot.

So I’m working on it. I got a bunch of new songs when I’m working. When I want to work on in this case is not to do separate voice and guitar tracks, but just do you know, performance in front of the mic, but not thinking about performing a song, thinking about a practice session. And I go there and I just turn the recording machine on, forgetting about it, and don’t worry about making mistakes then just playing and hoping that, you know, I will catch lightning in a bottle along the way.

And I think that’s, that’s what I’m going to try. Next time. 

[01:10:54] Joe Towne: I love that it’s like recording the practice and letting the practice be your [01:11:00] performance. Okay. I think that in our industry, we hear this phrase, casting is. And I think that can happen when it comes to our professional lives, but I also think it can happen in our personal lives.

Now in our wedding speech, uh, your wedding speech to us, you said that you were happy that Aaron found her playmate. I’m wondering, what did you mean by playmate and why is that important to you? Well, when Aaron was a little kid, I was her playmate 

[01:11:35] Arnie Cardillo: and she was very much a very much a performer. She loved performing for her grandparents.

Her mother’s parents would come over every Saturday night to visit and, uh, we would have to have a performance ready is yellow. Let’s go on. And so I would be her every, she wanted me to do, I would, you know, help her to get to [01:12:00] that performance. I felt like her playmate, I gave her. I was helped or facilitator or something.

I just helped her to do what she really wanted to do was perform in front of people. And, uh, so I was glad to pass that torch a lot, but I thought it was very important. I think it’s an important thing because it’s, you know, being, being playful, you know, having that sort of a partner who understands what you need and we’ll do it with you.

And I remember the two of you putting on puppet shows for all together. So I, you know, I felt it was, you know, it’s important, it’s creative outlet, it’s creative experience. And, uh, I was glad that she found someone who liked to deliver. 

[01:12:47] Joe Towne: Thanks. Yeah. So speaking of partnership, can you talk a bit about your company with your wife, Debra w where do you think you’d be without her?

Yeah, it 

[01:12:58] Arnie Cardillo: wouldn’t have happened to, you know, [01:13:00] Debra had a career in children’s book, public. She, uh, when we decided to purchase this company in 1997, she supported it. You know, I had an experience in children’s audio book publishing. So, you know, I knew the ins and outs of that. I’ve worked for other companies, one in particular.

So I knew how to do that. I knew had, you know, I knew how to produce. I knew how to, you know, it was a small company. I was the Salesforce. The prior company I worked for, not only did I work in editing and post-production, but I also very much a sold customer that the distributors in the industry. So I felt that I had all the connections and necessary skills to take on this project.

I was afraid of the title of president, but so we went into it together and, and Deborah was very knowledgeable about children’s books. She had worked with the large publishers, [01:14:00] like Harper and Macmillan at the time. So she had an intimate knowledge of what the great children’s books are and whether they would have, you know, Henry mud.

Whatever, whatever the, the great books were, uh, in children’s publishing. So together, you know, we, we called together lists and we licensed titles that we knew were strong titles in the industry. So yeah, I kind of did all the, you know, I did the productions and all of that and you know, other things in the company administration, but she was, you know, she took over at marketing and publicity and all the things that are just as important.

And I continued doing sales and that kind of stuff, or, you know, got involved in producing a lot more, but certainly couldn’t have done it without each 

[01:14:48] Joe Towne: other. So what is it like working together with the person that you love? What have you learned? What’s amazing not to do it. 

[01:14:55] Arnie Cardillo: No,

[01:14:58] Joe Towne: no. What I learned 

[01:14:59] Arnie Cardillo: was [01:15:00] that it’s best, you know, I was, you know, again, I was somewhere. I wanted to have a control. I had a control issue. I wanted to make sure I knew everything that was going on. And then I was, you know, making sure that things were getting done, but I w you know, I learned how that was abrasive at times.

So, uh, I learned that you have to delineate or take on certain, um, delegate, take on certain things that you’re best at and delegate the rest and trust the other person. In this case, my wife, Debra, to, uh, trust that she’ll do the job she needs to do, and that I should not step on her toes or getting away.

[01:15:43] Joe Towne: So trust. So delineation and trust is, and what’s amazing. It’s a rare thing, I think, to have somebody who you spend all this time with, out of work and then to go to work for over two decades together. So what what’s amazing about. [01:16:00] And your dynamic. Well, what’s 

[01:16:03] Arnie Cardillo: amazing about it is you feel this, you know, you feel support on many levels in your personal and your professional life because you know, one supporting each other in your book.

If you want to succeed in your professional life and you want to succeed in your relation with your, with your partner. So I think, um, you also, um, that doesn’t mean it’s easy because it’s hard. It’s very hard to leave work at work, you know? And I think, uh, so it’s something that sometimes never goes away and you have to, we try the, we, you know, we’ve learned how to not, you know, bring work into our private lives, but it took, it took a long time to, you know, to try to get the separation really parting of the idea of delegating and delineation is a way of.

You know, bringing it, bringing it into your home, into your [01:17:00] private life, where you, you, you know, the questions you have for that person, as you say to trust you, trust that they’re gonna, they’re gonna take care of it. And it’s never perfect. It’s never perfect. Just like marriage. Isn’t perfect, but you’re willing to 

[01:17:17] Joe Towne: work there.

It sounds like that could be one of the traps is knowing when to leave work at work, especially if it’s so easy to continue the conversation, maybe over dinner or while brushing teeth. So that could be one of the traps. And it sounds like the idea of setting that boundary is really helpful. And, and that’s something that you develop over time.

So I’m a dad, which, you know, and it helped you make you a grandpa. Um, what advice do you have for me to be a better dad? Help me out here. Maybe something around patients, of 

[01:17:53] Arnie Cardillo: course, patients, um, while also letting to letting our kids [01:18:00] develop their own story in life, you know, not try to bring your story or your life into theirs.

You know, to me, it’s like, uh, sometimes they would step back and say, Hey, that’s my story. I don’t want to impose it on them. They need to, they need to find their own way. There’s not, there’s no right way. You know, like, I think sometimes in an audio book, narration, you know, the worst kind of directors or the directors, or sometimes the actors who are so proficient at what they do, that they hear a line or a TA or, or paragraph or whatever one way.

And they’re unable to separate themselves from that and allow the actor to find their own space. And to, to do their craft. So, you know, you have to, I think it’s the same thing with, with your, with your child. You have to let [01:19:00] them develop into their own person as best you can and not put your judgments or your viewpoint of life, always on there.

It’s because there’s not only one way. It’s not only your 

[01:19:11] Joe Towne: way. That’s beautiful. And I imagine that perhaps that insight came over time. Maybe that wasn’t even something that you were aware of the entire time being a parent. I know there are, there’s some lore about your, um, helping your kids with baseball.

That, uh, perhaps there was,

[01:19:40] Arnie Cardillo: when I, I wanted, of course I wanted baseball and. All of my instruction, you know, all of the things you try to teach your kids, 

[01:19:52] Joe Towne: they don’t want it. It’s hard to be both dad and coach. Yes. 

[01:19:59] Arnie Cardillo: So yes. [01:20:00] Yeah, you’re right. 

[01:20:01] Joe Towne: You’re exposed me. Well, I really appreciate the perspective you’re talking about. And I’m wondering what’s different in your experience through the lens of being a grandparent versus being a dad.

Yeah. 

[01:20:16] Arnie Cardillo: Well, there is that separation. You get to truly, I mean, if you can be a grandparent away, I mean, if you can be a parent the way grandparents feel, sometimes it would help your parenting. I think because we can enjoy, we can, you can get the pure enjoyment out of who the kid is and. Just love them for who they are.

You don’t, as a grandparent, you don’t feel as responsible as you do. You don’t have that immediacy, you know, you don’t have that. You don’t have that constant living together and influence and worried about, you know, am I doing in my parenting? Okay. Am I not parenting? Okay. You get that, actually just enjoy the kid for who they [01:21:00] are.

And you, you know, you don’t, you leave the parenting to the parents and you just get to enjoy them. And you know, it just, it’s always such a pleasure just to watch them grow and develop a see 

[01:21:11] Joe Towne: here. It sounds like a good practice. The idea of setting aside some of the struggles in the story and just appreciate and be with them in the moment of what they’re discovering and doing in playing with.

And that takes a lot of patients. 

[01:21:25] Arnie Cardillo: And you know, sometimes you don’t have it because you’ve worked a hard day or you’re just very tired and you don’t want. Yeah, you don’t want to, you don’t have any energy or the ability to, to live through it, but you know, when you do your best and take it sometimes.

[01:21:44] Joe Towne: Great. All right, Arnie, are you willing to play a game for a minute or two? Okay. This is just, I’m calling this maybe a lightening round or just word association. What comes to mind first? When I say some of what I’m about to say, first thing that [01:22:00] comes to mind, you can observe a lot just by watching. Do you know who said that 

[01:22:05] Arnie Cardillo: sounds like Einstein domain,

[01:22:09] Joe Towne: Yogi Berra. Um, yeah, I, I just love the wisdom of Yogi Berra and, uh, obviously I was, that was a little bit of a curve ball. Okay. When you imagine pinstripes and the number seven on the back, first thing that comes to mind, greatness. Greatness. Okay. Same Jersey. Number 42. I think that’s Mariano. Yeah. 

[01:22:33] Arnie Cardillo: True.

Yeah. It just amazing what he did with 

[01:22:36] Joe Towne: one pitch and the intimidation factor. I just, it was pretty remarkable being a fan and kind of feeling like, well, it’s over now and enter Sandman and him coming in. Just what a feeling, you know, you probably never get that feeling again. I may not, I may not. Okay.

What about number 99? Aaron 

[01:22:56] Arnie Cardillo: judge. I think he’s, I think [01:23:00] he’s incredible. I mean, it’s still think he’s a work in progress obviously, but just an incredible all around player for his size and you know, constitution. 

[01:23:10] Joe Towne: Yeah. That’s a good leader on that squad. Which young Yankee are you the most excited about?

Yeah, I would 

[01:23:16] Arnie Cardillo: say probably judge. I mean, I think he’s got the most potential, you know, the young people that are on the team, like, you know, you think of clever Torres, you think of. Gary Sanchez you think of? Uh, but I think, uh, but I think he’s the one, that’s the one you stop and want to see what he 

[01:23:37] Joe Towne: does then.

All right. Back to the lightning round, uh, Frederick nature. They’re impressed, 

[01:23:42] Arnie Cardillo: mostly impressed by the way he wrote now, I didn’t read them in German, but I read Walter Kaufman’s translations of his work. And I don’t know who was the greater literary figure Kaufman or nature, but I have a sense of his nature.

He was in Kaufman, was being true [01:24:00] to his translations and is just a brilliant writer and white fleece. So that just more impressed with this writing than his necessarily his philosophy. 

[01:24:12] Joe Towne: Okay. And how about Soren? Kierkegaard was 

[01:24:16] Arnie Cardillo: my favorite when I was young, he was, um, it was very much a religious. Person theologian believer in God, but he, he fought the contemporary church in, uh, Copenhagen, uh, in that really believed the religion was really a personal experience and connection with God is personal.

[01:24:41] Joe Towne: Wow. Yeah. Is it true that you almost named your daughter Erin Kierkegaard or

on that one? Um, okay. Let’s talk classics. Who is the best James Bond 

[01:24:57] Arnie Cardillo: I’m kind of in allow? I think it’d be hard to [01:25:00] say that Sean, honestly wasn’t but I am enjoying Daniel. I didn’t want to like anyone else 

[01:25:08] Joe Towne: in between. No, Daltrey no Roslyn.

James Bond was created by author Ian Fleming in 1952, he was serving in the Naval intelligence division and said to a friend, I am going to write the spice story to end all spy stories. Inflaming ended up featuring James Bond in 12 novels and two short story collections. Since that time, numerous authors have carried the mantle on for the famous character.

James Bond has also been adapted for. Radio comic strip video games and film the name evokes a whole vibe bond. James Bond, the 26 bond films have grossed over $7.04 billion in [01:26:00] total making it the sixth highest grossing franchise to date. It is estimated that since Dr know, a quarter of the world’s population has seen at least one bond film, the UK film distributors association have stated that the importance of the bond series of films to the British film industry cannot be overstated as they quote unquote form the backbone of the industry.

So who is bond? James Bond bond is an intelligence officer in the secret intelligence service. Commonly known as bond is known by his code number double oh seven and was a Royal Naval reserve commander. When it comes to naming the character, Fleming has said I wanted the simplest dullest plaintiff’s sounding name.

I could find James Bond was much better than something more interesting, like Peregrine, Carruthers. He wanted a simple name because he wanted the interesting things [01:27:00] to happen to and around him while he remained an anonymous blunt instrument wielded by a government agency, the name James Bond came from that of the American or anthologist James Bond, a Caribbean bird expert, and author of the definitive field guide birds of the west Indies in Fleming pictured the character as good-looking something cruel in the mouth and cold eyes.

He imagined American singer Hoagy Carmichael in his mind with black hair falling down over the right eyebrow. Now James Bond is known for his one-liners his cars. His style is women referred to simply as bond girls. When you think about who played James Bond, you may think of Daniel Craig after all he’s been playing bond for the last 15 years, three years longer than Roger Moore who played him for 12.

Or maybe you think of Pierce Brosnan who plead him for seven years or Sean Connery [01:28:00] who played him for five years and then came back for another go after George Lazenby played James Bond. Once you probably aren’t thinking of Timothy Dalton as James Bond, unless you were locked in a timeshare. And the only movies they had were VHS tapes from the 1970s.

And there was nothing else to watch. James Bond is highly debated in popular culture studies. Some observers accused the bond novels. Of misogyny and sexism, no time to die. Director Cary Fukunaga has described Sean Connery’s version of bond as quote unquote, basically a rapist. Other critics claim that the bond films reflect Imperial nostalgia, nostalgia is associated with a yearning for the past it’s personalities, possibilities and events, especially the good old days.

Imperialism is the practice of taking over a country and its people for power and profit. Now time for some debate ourselves, Daniel Craig is retiring [01:29:00] the number hanging up the old martini glass. There’ve been loads of rumors about who should be the next James Bond. So when you think of who you want next in the role, do you think of Paul mescal, Richard Mack?

Idris Elba Henry Golding Leshanna Lynch who gets your vote and why let’s get into it. What’s a better movie godfather, one or godfather. That’s a 

[01:29:26] Arnie Cardillo: good one. I know. I always, and that’s a lot of, you know, the, uh, the world is divided on that one, but, uh, I know my son likes godfather to 

[01:29:37] Joe Towne: better. What’s your opinion.

I think 

[01:29:40] Arnie Cardillo: godfather ones, because you know, to me, it’s, it’s classic. It’s everything ties up, you know, I always think of Beethoven’s fifth is the same kind of thing. Everything is put together so well, but you know, some people like a little messiness and I think preferred in there, in there [01:30:00] in the film. So I think, uh, so it depends on what you like, but I just find, you know, godfather one.

[01:30:11] Joe Towne: Yeah. I’m really interested in, in, uh, being more messy, uh, these days. So, uh, that makes a lot of sense. You like godfather too? Yeah, I, um, I love going back to Italy so that, that part of it really speaks to me, but also because my family were immigrants around the time of the initial godfather, it gives me a little lens into, um, what some of the streets may have been like.

Certainly this is a heightened version of that and, um, not everyone’s story, but, uh, I appreciate both of them. I think I, I prefer the original, um, but my way of seeing them was so weird. I think I shared with you, um, blockbuster video used to do all kinds of edits to their movies. And one year we’re coming home from USC.

I had the bright [01:31:00] idea of renting this tape of godfather one and two that was re edited into the, um, sort of linear. And so my first experience watching the movies started in elements of the godfather two and came to present day. So I never saw the editing and back and forth so much later. Yeah. Much better.

That way. Much better that way. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We should trust in Coppola. Okay. Where did your love for the family man? Starring Nicholas cage come from?

[01:31:34] Arnie Cardillo: Well, it’s probably a TLE on me, but

I don’t know. It was just, I think Nicholas cage is a great actor too. I just, I thought it was. It’s not a great movie, but I thought I like the two of them together. 

[01:31:49] Joe Towne: Yeah. Their chemistry. Okay. All right. Um, first thing that comes to mind, the Westchester, all county baseball team, I was on it. [01:32:00] C word? Yes. You were.

Yeah. Okay. Long beach island, New Jersey, 

[01:32:05] Arnie Cardillo: where I got married to Deborah and, um, just, we love going back there. Great thinking 

[01:32:12] Joe Towne: for us, Chino Tuscany, 

[01:32:15] Arnie Cardillo: a great wine. Great lunch with Aaron and Jake and Ivy. Yeah. 

[01:32:24] Joe Towne: In terms of food memories, handmade ravioli or Italian wedding soup. Oh, 

[01:32:30] Arnie Cardillo: I have to, I was always a ravioli thing.

I remember my grandmother making them for the family or she used to make like 167. We never as a kid with a good appetite, eating 30, I said, but it was a, yeah, 

[01:32:49] Joe Towne: certainly pass it along. And you continue that tradition at Christmas and pass it along to us. What about the word E that’s something 

[01:32:58] Arnie Cardillo: actually, we came up with, [01:33:00] you know, um, I don’t know why, but I think it’s something that just, we had, we actually even did a patent or a trademark on it, although every once in a lot of people use it anyway.

But, um, yeah, we just thought we’d started doing 2012. We stuck, we found a company who developed, uh, ebook audio. Uh, so virtual or digital version of the read along where a kid would hold the book and listen to the tape and follow up. Um, so yeah, we came 

[01:33:33] Joe Towne: up with that phrase. Okay. Arnie, what’s something in your life that you can’t stop watching hitch.

Okay. The movie will Smith. 

[01:33:42] Arnie Cardillo: Yeah. It’s whenever it’s on. And, uh, who’s the female actress, uh, married to Ryan, Gosling chemistry in that movie that, you know, whenever I don’t go to watch it, I don’t get him take the video out and watch it. But whenever it’s on [01:34:00] TV, I can’t, I just sit there. 

[01:34:02] Joe Towne: Yeah. You get sucked in.

Yeah. It’s great. Watching really great chemistry on screen. There’s nothing like that. Um, yeah, for me, I’m also really enjoying this at the time of this recording. The Yankees are on what a 13 game winning 

[01:34:16] Arnie Cardillo: streak. It’s last night they won their 13th. It’s just, it’s amazing. What’s happened the turnaround there and all different chemistry, all different teams.

Oh, but keeps it going. Cause I want to say Dodgers and the Yankees in the wild 

[01:34:28] Joe Towne: series, let’s go, Luke will be so confused. Wait, do I go with my hand? My hat or my, my heart, my shirt. Um, yes. 

[01:34:37] Arnie Cardillo: I’m just upset that my grandson is wearing 

[01:34:40] Joe Towne: Dodger, beautiful hometown team. You know, he’s is more opportunities to go to a Dodger game.

Well, we’ll have to get out to the new Yankee stadium, uh, and do something there. That would be really special. Okay. I want to challenge you for a minute, Ernie. Um, I [01:35:00] wonder what’s something that you do better than most people. I really don’t 

[01:35:05] Arnie Cardillo: know what that is, Joe. Right? I don’t have an answer for that. I don’t see myself as doing anything better.

I just, I don’t see. 

[01:35:14] Joe Towne: I understand. I would say your depth of lists. You, I I’ve experienced that being in a booth with you and hearing what you’re noticing, uh, I’ve seen it applied to your craft, what you can pick up on and what you can hear. But I also hear that in regards to your relationships and the people you care about the most, when you go for a walk and you have a conversation, your ability to really deeply listen, it’s really meaningful.

So you know what, I’d 

[01:35:42] Arnie Cardillo: rather listen than speak. That’s really the fact that you’ve got, you have me here sitting, talking for an hour and a half is just not me, but yeah, I am interested in people and maybe it’s something I do. So I don’t have to hear myself, but I do. I do like listening to [01:36:00] people, hearing their 

[01:36:02] Joe Towne: perspective on, yeah.

It’s something that I really appreciate about you because it always feels so good to feel like you care and that you have a second set. That you follow up on something, you remember something. And I know that, you know, that is something that I value in our relationship. And I know that I must make your daughter feel like her, her, her journey’s being witnessed and seen by somebody that loves her.

And I know you have that care for Lucas as well. Thanks, Joe. I appreciate that. What’s something that you’re working to get better at. I 

[01:36:38] Arnie Cardillo: think the better person at listening and understanding my wife tells me I don’t listen very much. Well 

[01:36:47] Joe Towne: ironic after what I just said. It’s like, maybe when you’re listening, you listen really well.

Yeah. Right. 

[01:36:55] Arnie Cardillo: I know. I, uh, I always try to see [01:37:00] relationally. I think it’s always important to try to improve that. Cause it’s yeah. Marriages. To me, they’re not easy and relationships are not easy. And, uh, living with someone, you know, day in and day out for going on 33 years now, it’s not easy. It’s, it’s always a work in progress and, uh, you know, try to get 

[01:37:28] Joe Towne: better at it.

Is there a secret to longevity in relationship? I think 

[01:37:32] Arnie Cardillo: you have to do your best. People are different than you have to do your best to accept people for who they are and understand who they are and not give them a hard time about who they are. You just, you learn, you learn to be accepting and forgiving and understanding.

I think that’s very important in a relationship. 

[01:37:54] Joe Towne: All right. We’re going to put it in the show notes, but is there something that you have coming out soon that you’re proud of [01:38:00] and would like to share? I mean, a new production. Sure. Yeah, I did that. The 

[01:38:05] Arnie Cardillo: Hawaiian production, we just, just completed it and I really, you know, I, and I think it came out 

[01:38:10] Joe Towne: well, Ohana means family, right?

[01:38:13] Arnie Cardillo: Ohana means family. We’re doing a book on Bob Marley next. So I’m looking forward to that. You I’m in the process of licensing rights to some of the songs and casting for that book. So that’s always fun. We do a lot of music centric books, and I like that. 

[01:38:30] Joe Towne: I wonder why, well, Ernie, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you coming out from behind the booth behind all of the production part to center stage and sharing this conversation with me, as you know, this conversation is about seeking better and, um, the fact that you were willing to so generously give me so much of your time and be with us.

It means the world to me. So thank you so much for being here 

[01:38:58] Arnie Cardillo: and you’re, you know, you’re very good at [01:39:00] this, Joe. You’re a man. You make me 50 made me very comfortable and, uh, usually, uh, liked to prepare, but you wouldn’t let me,

and I appreciate that. Cause it really was a conversation between you and me and the, you know, our, our relationship and, uh, you know, I’m happy that we had it. 

[01:39:24] Joe Towne: Me too. Yeah. Thanks for coming on the journey and, um, much love and, uh, see you all soon.

One of the reasons I wanted to speak to Arnie was about the collaborative process. How does one of the best to do it actually go about creating something? I heard that he spends a good deal of time thinking about the audience experience. And he seeks to bring the story to life in a way that will create a depth of the world.

We are immersing ourselves in, even if that process takes extra [01:40:00] effort. And even if that process isn’t the way other people are doing it. So what does collaborate mean? I mean, really at first glance it means the action of working with someone to produce or create something. Okay. I also see to work together toward a common goal.

The best definition I have found says collaboration is a working practice. Whereby individuals work together for a common purpose to achieve benefits. Years ago, I had this thought so often we talk about win-win that sounded nice, fell like a step up from my win and you lose. But then I started to think about backroom dealings, where two groups come together toward a common goal, but at the expense of others.

And I thought there it is, again, someone has to lose, we win someone else loses. And then I wondered what if we could make something that benefits the makers, [01:41:00] the company, or organization, and the rest of us as well in the process. Could that be a new standard? When I think about better, that is exactly what I think about.

I’m obsessed with this book that Arnie produced Ohana means family. It’s about time. We sent her more Hawaiian stories. Let’s be curious. Maybe learning about other people’s experience and putting ourselves into their experience will help us cultivate more empathy. A guy can hope. What stands out to me is that as a producer, Arnie goes above and beyond.

He thought to go and spend some time speaking to native Hawaiians. Seeing the farms described in the book, hiring a local musician, it sounds like a true collaboration. It’s like the word Ohana and family is embodied in the process and the products themselves. So if you can go check it out, [01:42:00] all right, you’re not going to want to miss our guests.

Next week. Malcolm Jamal Warner Malcolm has become known in the entertainment business as a force, acting music, directing and producing Warner first rose to national prominence by storing on the celebrated and long running classic TV series. The. His work on the show, garnered him a primetime Emmy nomination for outstanding supporting actor in a comedy series.

He’s now starring on Fox’s hit medical drama, the resident as cardiothoracic surgeon, AJ Austin, AKA the Raptor. He quickly became a fan favorite before the resident. He was a series regular on ABC’s drama series, 10 days in the valley opposite Cura Sedgwick. He also made headlines in 2016, storing as AC cowlings opposite Cuba Gooding Jr.

On the critically acclaimed award-winning FX series, American crime story, the people [01:43:00] versus OJ Simpson. Maybe you’ve seen him on episodes of suits, sons of anarchy community, the Michael J. Fox show or Dexter in 2011 Warner produced, directed and starred in the bet original series. Read between the lines opposite golden globe award winner, Tracy Ellis.

Malcolm Jamal is a seasoned director. He’s well-known for his spoken word poetry. He has starred in several off-Broadway shows and received the NAACP theater award for best supporting actor. He’s been on the victory garden theater stage in Chicago, the Jolla Playhouse and the arena theater in DC in 2015 Warner nabbed his first Grammy award for best traditional R and B performance as a featured performer on Robert Glasper his version of the Stevie wonder classic Jesus children of America.

Lalah Hathaway was also featured on the track. Warner’s jazz funk band miles long has [01:44:00] performed in several major jazz festivals, including the Playboy jazz festival and has opened for high profile artists, including the late Luther Vandross. And he recently performed at the historic Apollo theater.

Thank you so much for helping these episodes connect to communities outside of. I love how we’re continuing to grow. The people that are finding us are loyal. They’re curious, and they seem to be interested in this show and what we’re seeking from it. Thank you for listening and sharing. Might you take a moment to pop onto your platform of choice and write two sentences three.

If you’re feeling it and rate our podcast, would you mind? I appreciate it. Super excited to keep sharing the rest of this season with you and dreaming up. What’s beyond that. Thank you for being a part of this community until next week. Be well.[01:45:00] 

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